Samantha Rodenhurst's Testimony (English)

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This is an English language translation of the testimony. See Samantha Rodenhurst's Testimony for the original Italian transcript.
Key to abbreviations
GCM Giancarlo Massei Judge Presidente
GM Giuliano Mignini Prosecutor Pubblico Ministero
SR Samantha Rodenhurst Witness being questioned Meredith Kercher's friend
CP Carlo Pacelli Lumumba civil lawyer Avvocato
DR Daniela Rocchi Defense Counsel for Raffaele Sollecito Avvocato
MB Marco Brusco Raffaele Sollecito's defense lawyer Avvocato
CDV Carlo Dalla Vedova Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
LG Luciano Ghirga Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
FM Francesco Maresca Counsel for Kercher family (civil plaintiffs) Avvocato
INT Interpreter

Contents

Samantha Rodenhurst's Testimony

There is an interpreter present who has been appointed and nominated to allow your examination in such a way as to enable you to listen to the questions after they have been translated into English, and translate your answers that, if you wish, you can give in English, and the interpreter will then translate these answers into Italian.

The witness, cautioned in accordance with article 497 of the Criminal Procedure Code, reads the oath.

General information: Samantha Rodenhurst, born in Bridgend, Wales on 26 January, 1987.

GCM:
The Public Prosecutor may proceed to the examination.

Public Prosecutor

GM:
You knew Meredith Kercher?
SR:
Yes.
GM:
When was the last time you saw her?
SR:
The last time that I saw her was at the Domus disco on Halloween night.
GM:
Do you remember if Meredith on that occasion met with some boy, in particular with a colored boy?
SR:
No, I didn't see her with any colored boy.
GM:
And you stayed at the Domus up until what time?
SR:
We left fairly early; I would say that we left around 3 am at the latest.
GM:
And did you leave with Meredith?
SR:
No.
GM:
Meredith still stayed in the disco?
SR:
As far as I know, yes.
GM:
And you never saw her again?
SR:
Yes.
GM:
How did you learn of Meredith's death?
SR:
Jade Bidwell's mother called her and told her that a girl in Erasmus exchange had been killed.
GM:
Do you remember what time she called her?
SR:
It was early, for dinner, around five or six in the afternoon.
GM:
So around 17 or 18 in the afternoon?
SR:
I think so yes.
GM:
And what did Mrs. Bidwell say?
INT:
What did she say to Jade?
GM:
To Jade, yes.
SR:
She told her that a girl in Erasmus exchange had been killed and that's why she had called her to ask if she was OK.
GM:
Did she refer to how she was killed?
SR:
No, not at all.
GM:
You then went to the police station?
SR:
Yes.
GM:
Who did you meet at the police station?
SR:
When ... Jade and I arrived together, and when we arrived we saw Amy Frost and Robin Butterworth.
GM:
Was Raffaele Sollecito also there?
SR:
Yes, but only later.
GM:
How did Raffaele and Amanda behave?
SR:
Raffaele was very quiet; I don’t remember anything in particular that would have been strange about him. Amanda was on the phone much of the time and she said many inappropriate things that upset many of the girls.
GM:
What did she say?
SR:
She said things of the type that it could have happened to her, it could have been her, we heard that she had found her and that Meredith had been in the closet covered by a duvet but that a foot was sticking out.
GM:
Amanda said that?
SR:
Yes.
GM:
When did she say that, on what occasion? Did she tell you this directly or to someone else and you heard her or did she talk loudly and you all heard it?
SR:
She was talking on the phone.
GM:
On the phone with an interlocutor ... do you know, did you know who she was talking with, if the call was with someone in Italy or in the United States?
SR:
She spoke in English and I know that at some point she was talking with her family.
GM:
And on what occasion she said: "I saw her inside a closet, wrapped in a duvet, with the foot that was sticking out", on what occasion did she say that?
SR:
That's what she said but I don't know if she was talking with her family at that moment.
GM:
Was she on the phone or did she say this to someone else and you heard it?
SR:
She talked on the phone, she was talking on the phone.
GM:
So was it she who had phoned someone or did someone call her?
SR:
I don't know.
GM:
What else did she say then? Do you remember?
SR:
When we were above she came to us and introduced herself to us but we were all upset and looked down and I said "hello" to her and I only introduced myself and told her who the other people there were.
GM:
Do you remember if she said something about the murderers of Amanda?
GCM:
Meredith obviously.
GM:
Meredith, I apologize.
SR:
Later, when Sophie and I went to give our fingerprints, she said, "those fucking bastards".
GM:
You understood that she was referring to those who had killed Meredith?
SR:
It was fairly obvious, yes.
GM:
So you took for granted that she meant those that had killed her.
SR:
Yes.
GM:
Did Amanda by any chance add that she was angry?
SR:
She said she was angry, that she needed to go home, that she was hungry, that she was tired, that she was thirsty.
GM:
Do you remember if Amanda addressed these to the Italian roommates?
SR:
At some point she was sitting with them but I don't know if they talked or not.
GM:
And with Raffaele, what was she doing during the wait, how did they behave?
SR:
Sometimes they were sitting together, sometimes they were sitting arm in arm, she seemed very affectionate towards him. He seemed to be less. More uncomfortable with regard to this. About the fact that she showed this affection.
GM:
And Amanda?
SR:
She was very affectionate almost as if she was flirting.
GM:
With Raffaele?
SR:
Yes.
GM:
I have no further questions.

Civil Party Advocate Pacelli

CP:
I am referring to when you, miss, were at the police station, there are two questions that I have already addressed to all the other witnesses. While you were at the police station did you hear anyone who was present say, and in particular possibly miss Amanda, that the poor Meredith before being killed had had sexual intercourse or at least had had sex?
SR:
No, not at all.
CP:
Still on that evening, in those circumstances, did you hear someone say to the persons present that Meredith had cried or screamed before dying?
SR:
No.
CP:
I have no further questions.

Defense Counsel Rocchi

DR:
Still in relation to when you were at the police station, on the evening that you arrived, you reported that there were also two Italian girls, Laura Mezzetti and Filomena Romanelli?
SR:
Yes.
DR:
What were they doing?
SR:
They were just sitting in silence, they were very upset, they spoke with the Leeds girls because it seemed that they knew them.
DR:
Were they comforting each other?
SR:
Yes.
DR:
This resulted in caresses, hugs, affectionate gestures?
SR:
I think that they perhaps put their arm around each other's neck a few times.
DR:
I can read, Judge, what was stated in the minutes of the January 31, 2007.
GCM:
Excuse me what was the date? Two thousand…?
DR:
2008, yes. Prosecutor Mignini asked: "Were the two Italian girls also upset or were they tranquil? They were very sad, they were trying to comfort each other with caresses, hugs and affectionate gestures".
SR:
Yes.
DR:
Did you cry on that occasion?
SR:
I think I shed a few tears.
DR:
Then I have to contest what you stated, still in the same minutes, on page 9 you said: "We were all quite overwhelmed but as far as I remember I hadn't cried, didn't cry, but I was very concerned about Jade".
SR:
Yes.
DR:
Were you concerned also for something else?
SR:
I was worried about all of them, but most of all about Jade because she is a very fragile and emotional girl.
DR:
Weren't you also worried because you had to give your fingerprints?
SR:
No, because at that time, I didn't know that we would have to give our fingerprints. I didn't know that we were all there as suspects.
DR:
I will read from the statement you made, still on that same day, on page 13 you said: "Amanda was very calm and me and Sophie were really worried because the night before we had embraced with Meredith the last time, maybe they would find our fingerprints" - then there are three dots here - "this is what we were thinking".
SR:
Yes, later in the evening, when we went to give our fingerprints, I thought that.
DR:
But hadn't you seen Meredith on the previous evening, the evening of the first?
SR:
I saw her for the last time on Halloween night, which would have been in the morning, at 3 am on the first of November.
DR:
And then you had this fear, as you just explained, about together with Sophie having embraced Meredith the previous evening?
SR:
Because I thought we had embraced her when she left on the night of the first and I did not know whether she was wearing the same t-shirt.
DR:
I have no further questions.

Defense Counsel Brusco

MB:
With regard to the attitude of the two Italian roommates, you described that quite well, I have only one specific question: did you notice if they were crying or not?
SR:
I don't remember.
MB:
Still talking about you girls, do you remember if someone then described the position the body was found in?
SR:
I only heard Amanda say that it was found in the closet, wrapped in a duvet with the foot sticking out.
MB:
However, still in your statement of January 31, page 11, you said: "No, I heard people talking because everyone was voicing their own views, about the people who said ...." And so on.
SR:
Everyone had ideas.
MB:
So can we say that there were more people talking about this or was it only Amanda?
SR:
Only Amanda said: "I found her, I saw her".
MB:
And the others then, what did they say? Did they present their own theories, reported by others?
SR:
They said, "She was found, we heard that she was found".
MB:
And these impressions were obtained from whom? By Amanda or other persons or what else?
SR:
I don't know.
MB:
After they had taken your fingerprints what happened then? Amanda in particular how was she, agitated or tranquil?
SR:
At the beginning she was very tranquil, she seemed very calm, I don’t remember that well but then she became more agitated.
MB:
However, you did not mention this in your statement on January 31, page 14, to a specific question you replied: "Amanda entered first and when she came out she was absolutely calm, she complained for a moment of having dirty hands".
SR:
But then later she said, she was talking and she said that.
MB:
When?
SR:
... fucking bastards?
MB:
If you could perhaps explain why you have never said this before.
SR:
I said that in my statement. It happened when we were downstairs giving our fingerprints but I don't remember exactly when.
MB:
Do you remember if there was anybody else who heard this thing you heard?
SR:
Sophie Purton.
MB:
She didn't mention this. Did you hear Amanda direct harsh expressions, however disrespectful, against the police in those moments?
SR:
I don't remember.
MB:
Still on January 31, page 15, you replied to his question as follows: "It seems to me that the attitude of Amanda in relation to the situation at the police station was not to her liking, as more or less to all of us, but I did not hear her say things against the police".
SR:
I don't remember that, I am sorry.
MB:
Still in those moments at the police station, did you ever hear Amanda talk about the murder with Raffaele?
SR:
I didn't hear anything she said to Raffaele.
MB:
Do you remember if Amanda and Raffaele had any injuries or scratches?
SR:
I didn't notice any.
MB:
Last question regarding spending time with Meredith. What type of frequent encounters you had with Meredith? Did you see her also at the university or only during the evenings?
SR:
We had no lessons together. We saw in the evenings or if we happened to meet during the day.
MB:
Did you meet Amanda for the first time at the police station that evening or had you met her or seen her frequently already before that?
SR:
I met her for the first time at the police station that night.
MB:
Had Meredith ever said anything about Amanda, about the relationship she had with Amanda at home?
SR:
I knew that she lived with an American girl but that was all I knew.
MB:
Had she never complained about her when she talked with you?
SR:
Not with me.
MB:
I have finished.

Defense Counsel Dalla Vedova

CDV:
Only a confirmation. You stated that on the evening of the 31st you had been at the Merlin and then to another disco and you also said that there were several colored boys. Can you be more accurate?
SR:
No, I don't remember, I was not with any black boys, they weren't part of my group of friends.
CDV:
I didn't ask about that. I asked if it is true that you stated that: "Do you remember if that night there was a guy," to which you replied: "There were several colored guys that evening".
SR:
I don't know.
CDV:
You will recall that you made a statement on January 28, 2008?
SR:
Yes.
CDV:
And do you remember ... if not I shall have to read it to you.
GCM:
Yes, there is a dispute. You can read it.
CDV:
The question is, I repeat: do you remember if there were ...
GCM:
No, the statements that she made and then if she recalls. The statements that the witness made on that occasion, which are in dispute.
CDV:
The dispute is that the witness made this statement. "There were several colored guys that evening", page 4 of the statement from January 28, 2008.
SR:
I don't recall anything more specific, I don't remember having talked or my friends having talked with those guys.
GCM:
Point out to the witness that the defense lawyer reads the statements previously made by the witness in which she said, we are at the end of January 2008, January 28, she said: "there were colored guys in the discotheque on October 31." Do you remember this?
SR:
No, I don't remember now.
CDV:
OK. It appears that you left for England on November 4th, can you confirm that?
SR:
I returned home on Saturday or Sunday, so yes.
CDV:
On the 4th. But why? Had you completed your course or did you go home because you were shocked due to some particular reason?
SR:
I returned home because I was shocked and because there were so many journalists. And because we didn't know who it was, whether the killer was still at large.
CDV:
So it was because you were afraid?
SR:
Yes.
CDV:
With regard to journalists, have you ever been contacted by journalists or the media? Have you ever had offers from journalists?
SR:
Yes, I have been contacted and I talked with Pisco Alessi, Pasquale Alessi, and he asked me if I was available for interviews with some channels and I said yes. And I granted interviews to Channel Four and CBS News.
CDV:
Can you tell me the date of these two interviews with Channel Four and CBS or BBS, BBC?
SR:
CBS.
CDV:
Can you tell us the exact dates?
SR:
I have no idea.
CDV:
But were they during the last month or six months ago?
SR:
At least six months ago.
CDV:
Excuse me for the next question but it seems proper to ask. Did you receive any favors from these broadcasters for having released these interviews?
SR:
No.
CDV:
The last circumstance. When you heard the story at the police station, do you remember if Amanda also had said that she had had the shower?
SR:
I remember that she said that there was blood on the sink, that she had gone there to take a shower but that she did not think it was strange. She then went into the other bathroom and saw the poo in the bathroom, in the toilet, and at that point she thought there was something strange.
CDV:
Do you remember if she also said: "I took a shower"?
SR:
No, not any more.
CDV:
I contest your statement because it conflicts with the one made January 28, 2008, page 7, where you said: "Amanda said that she had had a shower first and then she had seen the blood.", then it continues, but the dispute was only of the fact of the shower, the rest has been confirmed.
SR:
I don't remember any more.
CDV:
Did you have all this information directly from Amanda or from other people who were in the room?
SR:
I heard Amanda say these things but she was not talking to me.
CDV:
Who was she talking to?
SR:
I don't know, I believe she was on the phone, I don't remember having heard her talking with anyone in particular.
CDV:
Then she was on the phone when you heard Amanda say these things?
SR:
I think so yes.
CDV:
You stated that Amanda was concerned because at some point she said: I could have been the victim, it could have been me in place of Meredith.
SR:
Yes.
CDV:
Thank you.

Defense Counsel Ghirga

LG:
Thirty seconds. Lawyer Ghirga for Knox. Do you speak Italian?
SR:
(Overlap of voices)
LG:
How much Italian did you know in January 2008?
SR:
More than I do now.
LG:
What do terms “congettura”, “supposizione” mean to you?
SR:
I don't know now.
LG:
Because in that record that we have quoted from, about did she suffer a lot or did she not suffer a lot, you said: "We were all speculating and conjecturing". Thanks.
GCM:
Was there an interpreter present when you gave this statement?
LG:
The interpreter translates, of course, then the interpreter translates a term that you will reread after ...
GCM:
But, excuse me, didn't you speak in English at that…?
LG:
Certainly there was an interpreter, the interpreter translated the words "congettura" and "supposizione". Do you want me to read?
INT:
Do you want me to translate "congettura" and "supposizione" into English?
GCM:
No, we understand.
LG:
You will have signed also, haven't you?
INT:
I said "congettura" because I thought you alluded to the word in Italian, if not I will translate it into English.
LG:
I asked what that means.
GCM:
Sorry. Please proceed, counsel.
LG:
Congettura and or supposizione.
INT:
In English?
LG:
No, in Italian.
GCM:
Excuse me, counsel, I have a question: in that statement did the witness express these words in English or in Italian?
LG:
In English.
SR:
In Italian.
GCM:
You were speaking Italian?
SR:
Yes.
GCM:
Then no interpreter was present?
SR:
Not during my first statement. I agreed to give my statement in Italian because there was only one interpreter at the police station. And I would have had to wait for a very long time to have one.
GCM:
And you remember that you used the term " congettura "? That’s what the lawyer asked. Wasn’t that so?
LG:
Yes certainly.
SR:
No.

(Overlap of voices.)

GM:
Which statement please?
GCM:
On November 2nd at the police station, of what I understand.
LG:
On page 11.
GM:
(Overlap of voices). Because there was the translation. Page 11 of the statement of?
LG:
Yours is certainly wrong, I will read.
GCM:
Excuse me, lawyer, in which statement? I understood that on November 2nd the witness told us that she spoke in Italian. But it was not on that occasion that the term was used.
LG:
In the well known minutes multiple times. January 31, we have seen, 2008 because here is written 2007 and it is evident. So I'll read to you, on page 11, last section: "Basically we started to make conjectures and suppositions about what happened". I asked if you knew the meaning of "congetture e supposizioni".
GCM:
I understood. But the question is this: when you were heard in January 2008 did you speak in English or in Italian?
SR:
In English with the help of an interpreter.
GCM:
So you did not use the term "congettura" (conjectures) but its equivalent in English?
SR:
I don't know what is the English equivalent of "congettura".
INT:
I can translate it if anyone tells me to.
GCM:
In any case you spoke in English and there was an interpreter, that's clear. If there are no other questions, we can proceed. Public Prosecutor and the civil party?

Civil Party Advocate Maresca

FM:
If we ask the interpreter to translate the words "congettura o supposizione" (conjecture or supposition) into English to the witness, and if you can ask her if it is a word of common usage that she used during the interrogation.
SR:
Not every day, it's not a word one uses every day.
FM:
That question and another one. It may have been used in the course of the witness examination in January 2008, the one with the interpreter?
SR:
I don't remember every single word I said, it's not a very strange word.

Judge Massei

GCM:
Only one circumstance. The phone call, when she spoke on the phone in the late afternoon of November 2nd, did this phone call occur before or after the police at the police station called the witness to make her statements?
INT:
Excuse me, a phone call by who?
GCM:
The call went first ...
INT:
By whom, please? If no ...
GCM:
The phone call by Amanda. The witness reported that on that afternoon she heard Amanda Knox talking on the phone. Chronologically, did this phone call of Amanda precede or follow the depositions in that same evening at the police station?
SR:
I didn't give any statements that evening, I talked with a man who was translating but he only took notes.
GCM:
First the witness reported two circumstances. Amanda Knox who talked on the phone and the same Amanda Knox who was heard by police agents. So which one of these occurred first? Amanda Knox talking on the telephone or being heard by the police?
SR:
I don't know when she did it ... she gave her statement.
GCM:
Then you don't know it. But everyone was talking, in the afternoon of November 2nd, did they all talk in English or was there a group that was talking in Italian?
SR:
They talked with us in English and we were talking in English.
GCM:
The witness is dismissed.