Edda Mellas's Testimony (English)

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This is an English language translation of the testimony. See Edda Mellas's Testimony for the original Italian transcript.

Contents

Edda Mellas's Testimony

Key to abbreviations
GCM Giancarlo Massei Judge Presidente
EM Edda Mellas Witness being questioned Amanda Knox's mother
CP Carlo Pacelli Lumumba civil lawyer Avvocato
LG Luciano Ghirga Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
CDV Carlo Dalla Vedova Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
GM Giuliano Mignini Prosecutor Pubblico Ministero
SP Serena Perna Counsel for Stephanie Kercher Avvocato
SS Sabrina Scaroni Counsel for civil plaintiff Patrick Lumumba Avvocato
INT Interpreter


N.B.: This translation of witness testimony into English from Italian is subject to revision during subsequent phases of proofreading, and thus should be considered as an intermediate rather than a final version. It is a free translation of the Italian original on which it is based and is being provided at this time for the convenience of interested parties who do not read Italian. Although every effort has been made to ensure its accuracy, in the event of a discrepancy between it and the Italian original, the latter shall be considered as accurate and the English‐language translation as erroneous.


Witness Edda Mellas is introduced to the court.

GCM:
You do not speak Italian?
EM:
No.
GCM:
Interpreter Mrs Maura Battilani is appointed for you.

Appointing of the expert Maura Battiliani

Interpreter Maura Battilani is introduced to the court.

GCM:
You are not found in either of the conditions of incompatibility or inability to take the position, a position which is to enable the witness to understand what is being said in Italian and to translate what the witness will want to declare and refer to in response obviously into Italian, you must undertake to carry out this task with the sole aim of letting everyone know the truth.
INT:
I solemnly swear.
GCM:
Please state your name, date of birth and place of birth.
INT:
Maura Battilani, born in Bologna on 2 July 1955.
GCM:
It is pointed out to Mrs Mellas that you are here because you are the mother of Amanda Knox.
EM:
Yes.
INT:
Yes.
GCM:
In relation to this particular bond with the defendant you may avail yourself of the right to refuse to testify or you can decide to testify.
INT:
(Translates into English.)
EM:
Ok.
INT:
She wants to testify.
GCM:
It is pointed out to you that if you decide to testify you are a witness like all the other witnesses who have no particular bond with the defendant and must therefore tell the truth aware of the responsibility as well as moral law also provided for the witness who should or should not answer any question or report things that do not appear as true to the witness.
INT:
(Translates into English.)
EM:
Ok.
GCM:
She must now be invited to make her own statement of commitment by translating the oath to her into English so that she will be well aware of it.
INT:
(Translates the oath into English.)

Aware of the moral and legal responsibility that I take with my statement, I promise to tell the whole truth and not to hide anything to the best of my knowledge.

EM:
Yes.
INT:
She solemnly swears.
GCM:
Please state your name, date of birth and place of birth.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Edda Mellas born in Stuttgart in Germany on July 6,1962.

Civil Party Counsel Carlo Pacelli

CP:
Mrs Mellas, after the murder, on which day did you arrive in Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
On November 6.
CP:
Did you talk with your daughter’s lawyers before your first discussion with your daughter in prison on November 10?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
When exactly?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don’t remember the exact date because I was in shock. I believe it was on the sixth, and then I went to talk with Luciano Ghirga.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, did Amanda live together with you in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
Did Amanda use alcohol in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Occasionally with her friends.
CP:
Did Amanda use drugs in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
As far as I know, she had only tried marijuana and that was all.
CP:
Did Amanda ever have any problems with the Seattle police?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, apart from the small fine that they received due to the noise but it was not a criminal offence.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, when Amanda came to Italy, before the murder, how often did you hear from her?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
We were in touch by email more or less every day.
CP:
Were you aware that your daughter was using drugs in Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She didn't tell me about it.
CP:
Didn’t she talk to you about it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CP:
Did your daughter tell you about her friends and acquaintances in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
Did she tell you that she had met Raffaele Sollecito?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
When did she tell you this, Mrs Mellas, was it during the first half of October or towards the end of October?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
As far as I remember it could have been towards the end of October.
CP:
Did she tell you that she had met a boy called Rudy Ghedè (sic)?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CP:
Did your daughter ever talk about her work at the Le Chic pub?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
And what did she tell you?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She says that she told her that it was a part-time job and that she took drinks to customers.
CP:
Was she happy with this job?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, it was fine.
CP:
Did you daughter ever talk to you about the owner of the Le Chic pub, Patrick Diya Lumumba?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
And what did she tell you about Patrick?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She told me that he was a very nice person who was dedicated to his family, who took good care of his family.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, on November 10, did you go to see your daughter in the Capanne prison in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don’t remember the exact date but if you mean the first visit, yes, I did.
CP:
Yes, I am referring to the first visit.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
During your discussion with your daughter on November 10, did you talk about Patrick Dyia Lumumba, to whom from now on I will refer to only as Patrick?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
Did your daughter Amanda tell you during this discussion that she had accused Patrick, an innocent man?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
GCM:
Perhaps we can limit the question, please ask her if they had talked about Patrick and in which terms he was spoken about.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she felt very bad about the fact that Patrick had been dragged into this ugly situation.
CP:
But who dragged him into it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She said that when she was interrogated all night and while they were saying to her that she would spend the rest of her life in prison and told her that she was lying and yelled at her and hit her and that if she did not produce a name she would spend the rest of her life in jail, and with them continually bringing the phone in front of her face and telling her that "we know you met Patrick" with Patrick’s message being on the display, and she needed to provide a possible explanation and then she said maybe, perhaps he could have been there, and she also said, "I know that it’s not true but it could also have happened", and those who were questioning her immediately wrote down Patrick’s name.
CP:
In particular, did Amanda tell you that she knew she had said something bad with regard to Patrick?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Like I just said, she felt terrible for having felt the need to give a name, which was that of Patrick, because they were showing her this message on the mobile phone.
CP:
I put it to you that she specifically said that "I know that I said something bad talking about Patrick" on page 63 of your statement.
GCM:
That is an interception, counsel.
CP:
Yes, it is a translation of the interception of November 10.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
[translator’s note: this comment is blank in the transcript]
CP:
On the fourth line, "I know that I said something bad." Doesn’t this confirm that Amanda told you this?
GCM:
Counsel is asking you if you remember that during this conversation your daughter told you that she had said something bad with reference to Patrick?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She remembered that she had said something bad because the police pressured her and she was very sorry not to have had the courage to stand up against the police and say no, it was not true.
CP:
Why isn't the explanation you are giving today in the wiretap transcript?
CDV:
I object.
CP:
Your honor, I have never interrupted the other parties so let’s carry out this examination in a calm and composed manner.
GCM:
Counsel, now he's doing it because you asked the question and the defense is looking at something on this, the question was posed, counsel.
CP:
Yes, because today she told us a version that is different from what is said in the transcripts.
GCM:
That is the question.
CDV:
I oppose this because it is an assessment by the counsel who makes an assessment on the difference in this, so either make a specific question with more precise reference, because it is so general and your personal assessment and it is prohibited.
GCM:
The opposition in these terms is accepted, partly because from the text of this conversation it may be inferred in a different way, so you could possibly ask questions about the specific circumstances from the witness.
CP:
I welcome the invitation. Mrs Mellas, did Amanda specifically say in that conversation that she felt horrible because she had framed Patrick and due to the fact that if Patrick was in prison it was solely because of her accusations?
CDV:
I don’t want to interrupt the examination, but this is not only a question that was already made, this exact question was made before, with the same case, you used the word bad while now you are talking about horrible, you are now attempting to add staining using different adjectives to stress the point which, however, is documented, we oppose because this is a question that was already asked and answered.
GCM:
Maybe this because basically we have, counsel, but this also applies to any subsequent questions that may be posed with reference to parts of the surveillance transcripts which we have already acquired, so it is related to the documents, so it appears that maybe you should ask questions that clarify the circumstances.
CP:
On page 44 of this intercept, if you can confirm this to me, Amanda expressly says "I feel horrible because of this. Because I put Patrick in this horrible situation. He is stuck in jail now and it's my fault, it’s my fault that he is here, I feel horrible!"
GCM:
What’s the question, counsel?
CP:
The question is this: do you confirm that this is the version according to which your daughter said that she had done a bad thing with regard to Patrick?
CDV:
I repeat the opposition because this question has already been asked and answered; you referred earlier to a bad thing now you are talking about...
CP:
... no, it is more specific.
CDV:
... and again to bad but this is the same case.
CP:
No, it’s not true.
GCM:
But excuse me, please, the opposition is successful, because this sentence is from the transcript, sentences that have already been made and covered. We can ask if she remembers it, but it is irrelevant whether she remembers it or does not remember it.
CP:
Your honor, let’s highlight the fact whether she remembers it.
GCM:
Do you remember it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She felt bad because Patrick was in prison and she hadn’t been strong enough to stand up to the police.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, did it appear to you that Amanda in the memoriale dated sixth of November wrote in English that she affirmed that Patrick was the murderer?
GCM:
Excuse me, maybe we can ask the question in the following terms, Mrs Mellas, do you know if Amanda wrote on November 6 a memoriale in English, with regards to obviously, a memoriale, an account of the events that occurred and what followed?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I have never read anything, no memoriales of any kind.
GCM:
You did not read it, but independently from having read it or not, the counsel was asking you if you know whether she wrote it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, after this conversation, did you invite your daughter to exonerate Patrick?
GCM:
After the conversation on the 10th, Counsel?
CP:
Yes.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I know that she spoke with her lawyers and those were the only people to whom she spoke.
CP:
After the conversation, did you go and tell the police that your daughter had told you that Patrick was innocent?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't speak Italian.
CP:
Did you go and tell it to the Prosecutor?
GCM:
Counsel, she has already answered that she spoke no Italian and did not go and tell the police, it’s an answer that can apply also to the Prosecutor.
CP:
Did you tell anyone about it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CP:
Not even to Amanda’s lawyers?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
At the beginning, I didn’t talk often with Amanda’s lawyers.
CP:
In any case, did you tell them about it or not, also later?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
They already knew about it from Amanda because they had received that information from her.
CP:
Did Amanda tell you that the police had been kind to her after she had given them Patrick’s name?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CP:
Was your daughter mistreated and beaten in prison?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Do you mean in the prison or during the interrogation?
CP:
In the prison, according to what she said to you during that conversation.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CP:
Did your daughter tell you how she was treated in prison, in other words if she was treated with respect, with humanity?
CDV:
Your honour, this is also unacceptable because it is a repetition, there is an attempt in front of the answers, the civil party does nothing but repeat a new question trying to get at something, which has already been answered. It has already been said once that she was not mistreated because she was asked how she was treated, well or bad. So I oppose.
CP:
Counsel Dalla Vedova, could I be allowed to conduct my cross-examination without interruptions.
GCM:
Counsel, please let's avoid repeating questions.
CP:
I would like to point out that on page 50 of the transcript of the conversation on the 10th, Amanda says that the people in the prison were nice to her, treated her even as if she was their own daughter, can you confirm this fact?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember this precisely, I remember that she told me that some of them were very friendly while others were very cold with her.
CP:
Mrs Mellas, did your daughter phone you during the night between November 1 and 2, 2007?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Very early in the morning on November 2.
CP:
How many times did she call you?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Three.
CP:
At what times Seattle time did you receive these calls?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The first was around 4 am in the morning, perhaps a few minutes before four.
CP:
And the other ones?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The second one was approximately within one hour and the third one just after the second one, I don't remember the exact times.
CP:
Four am in Seattle would be what time in Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know precisely, I think it was around one but I am not sure.
CDV:
It seems to me that the answer also referred to the fact that there is a difference in daylight savings time that perhaps was left out from the translation.
GCM:
So if we can specify, with specific reference to the date, we are on 2 November, and then there is the standard time, so 2 November at 12.00 or 13.00 in Italy do you know what time that corresponds to in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know precisely what time it was in Italy.
GCM:
Maybe you can ask if she knows whether it was daylight savings time or standard time in Seattle.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she said yes.
GCM:
So it's always standard time there.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, they also change the time twice a year in Seattle.
GCM:
But was it standard time there then?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know precisely if it was daylight savings time or standard time, all I know is when we need to change the clock.
GCM:
Do you know what is the time difference between Seattle and Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Sometimes it's 8 hours, and sometimes 9 hours I think.
GCM:
And this depends on whether it's daylight savings or standard time?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
It's because the time change does not occur on the same day.
CP:
Can you report the content of those calls?
GCM:
Counsel asked you earlier about the three telephone calls from the morning of 2 November, one that you received around 4 am, the second one within an hour after the first one around 5 am and a third one a little bit later. Counsel is asking you if you can remember the content of these three phone calls, the first one, the second one and the third one.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, in the first call she said that she knew that it was really early in the morning, but she had called because she felt that someone had been in her house. She had spent the night at Raffaele's and she had returned to take a shower at her house, and the main door of the house was open. That had seemed strange to her, but the door had a strange lock and sometimes the door didn't close properly, and when she entered the house everything seemed to be in place.Then she went to take the shower, and when she came out of the shower she noticed that there was a bit of blood but she thought that perhaps someone was having their period and had not cleaned properly after themselves. She then went to her room and dressed and then went into the other bathroom to blow-dry her hair and realized that someone had not flushed the toilet, and she thought that it was strange because usually the girls flushed. Then she had to go to meet Raffaele, and she told him of these strange things in the house. Then she tried to call one of the others who lived with them to find out something, and had the number of another Italian roommate that was in the town, the others were there no longer and she tried to call Meredith several times but there was no response. They returned to the house, and she showed Raffaele what she had found and they realized that there was a broken window. Then at this point they began to knock on Meredith’s door trying to wake her up and when there was no answer, they tried to enter the room.
GCM:
Excuse me but was all this in the first phone call, because the counsel asked you about the three phone calls, first the first one, then the second one and then the third one - so was all this said during the first phone call?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She told me these things very quickly during the first phone call. When she had told me this, I said to her "call the police." And she told me that Raffaele was finishing a phone call to her sister, and soon after would have called the police. This was the first phone call.
CP:
And the contents of the second call?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The second call was terrible, she was not feeling well, she said that she heard them screaming that they had found a foot in the room. She said that she didn't understand what was happening, the only thing that she could understand was this word "foot" and we talked a moment about this and then we said goodbye and hung up, and this was the second call.
CP:
The one at 5 am.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember the exact time but within an hour from the first call.
CP:
And the third?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
In the third phone call, she told me it was not only a foot but that they had found a person in Meredith's room. She was very upset and the only thing that she could understand was that it was a person but she did not yet know precisely who.This phone call did not last very long, and I said to her "try to keep calm" but we could not speak so much because I heard shouting and there was the police who called her, so we ended the call.
CP:
During all these discussions, did she ever say that she was worried about her friend Meredith?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, of course she was already worried when she could not contact her over the phone. Then she was still worried about her when they said that there was someone inside the room, she was very worried.
CP:
For the moment, I have no further questions.

Defence Counsel Luciano Ghirga

INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
LG:
You said that you arrived in Italy on 6 November. Do you remember that you came to my office on the morning of the seventh with a municipal official called Daniela - and the surname we do not mention although we know it - , do you remember this fact?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, Daniela, yes.
LG:
Do you remember also that a duty solicitor/ public defender/ court-appointed counsel asked you to pass by his office, do you remember if - on the morning of the seventh while you came to me giving me a police order relating to art. 102, I think that of the parent, - in that moment there was also the duty solicitor/ public defender/ court-appointed counsel who was asking you to pass by his office - do you remember the presence of the duty solicitor/ public defender / court-appointed counsel?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know what 'avvocato di ufficio' is in English.
LG:
On the morning of the seventh, you came to my office, and you appointed us as your own lawyers / private counsels / trusted lawyers. However, in Italy, there is a role called a duty solicitor/ public defender / court-appointed counsel and I believe they are also appointed in America when you have no own lawyer yet. Do you remember that there was a lawyer who was looking for you and who asked you to come by his office?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember having talked with any others.
LG:
When did Amanda know that you would be travelling to Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember exactly but she knew it probably three days before I arrived.
LG:
In these telephone calls, did Amanda ever say to you that she wanted to return to America or that she wanted to stay in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, she insisted on staying here.
LG:
I wonder if Amanda ever talked to you about Meredith?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
LG:
About Laura Mezzetti, about Filomena Romanelli?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
LG:
What did Amanda think of the three housemates who shared the house with her, what did she tell you?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She really liked all three of her housemates.
LG:
Do you remember what she told you about being friends with Meredith - we cannot say friends is an evaluation - what kind of relationship did they have, inasmuch as Amanda told you she were on good terms with Meredith, were there any problems in the management of the apartment?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, she said that they got on well.
LG:
And Amanda also told you about Raffaele Sollecito. Yes, you mentioned this earlier today. Did she sound happy when she told you about this meeting with Raffaele or not?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
LG:
To you it seemed that your daughter was happy with this...
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she seemed happy.
LG:
Let's talk about the phone calls. Your American phone number was 0012069326457.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, that’s the home phone number.
LG:
Amanda called from her cell phone number 348673590.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember the Italian phone numbers from two years ago.
LG:
In any case, the phone calls were made from a cellular phone of Amanda as listed in the phone records and you received them via your land line telephone in your house, isn't that right?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
LG:
I would like to ask you again about the times of the three telephone calls that Amanda made you that day in Perugia and that night in Seattle. I can read the Italian times to you but we have a lack of correspondence in terms of the time zone in Seattle, I don't know it. But since it's a phone record we can remind you of them, the first phone call from Amanda to you was the one at 12:47 pm Italian time, then the next one at 1:24 pm about 40 minutes later.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Ok.
LG:
And at 1:58 pm, an hour and 10 minutes later, the third phone call took place whereas you said about an hour later and then I reread the Italian times to you, we are then at the corresponding American times if you remembered this sequence of an hour or an hour and 10 minutes during which all phone calls took place.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
GCM:
Are these the three calls that you earlier remembered and of which you have talked about?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
LG:
I have no further questions.

Defence Counsel Carlo Della Vedova

CDV:
Now that we are on this topic I would like to clarify one thing, I think it is important that we heard about the three phone calls, I wanted to ask Mrs Mellas if you could confirm that the dialling code for America is 001?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes
CDV:
Can you confirm that the code for Seattle is 206?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Can you confirm to me that your home phone number ends with the number sequence of 457?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Can you confirm that your cellphone number ends with the number sequence of 350?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Can I ask the witness to confirm to me that the phone calls originated from this Vodafone number, which is on the record, and that there are both the caller's number which is 3484673590, which was used by Knox, and then there are the numbers that were called to, and then there are the times that we have just now analysed, the first phone call at 12:47 PM, then one at 1:24 PM and one at 1:27 PM and the duration is also an important element, the first call was 88 seconds long, can you confirm to me that this number on this phone record is yours? And if you can confirm those phones to me.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, it seems to be right.
GCM:
Can you also specify the length of the phone calls for the sake of completeness, I don't know if ...
CDV:
There is a column in this form in Italian that says duration.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, from what I can remember, yes, that may be the length of the calls.
GCM:
Perhaps you can say how much it is.
CDV:
What number do you read around...?
GCM:
The duration of the 12.47 pm call, how long it lasted, the duration of the 1.24 pm call.
CDV:
It is documented.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The first one is 8888 and the second 26.
CDV:
Perhaps 162.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
88162 and 1, she says that in her opinion it should correspond to what she remembers.
CDV:
Do you remember if you received any other calls from Amanda later on that same day?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
More or less what time it was in Seattle, also if I repeat the fact about Seattle is pretty irrelevant, but in any case if you remember having received the other calls and the content of those calls?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Not exactly, because I was very much in shock. I was shocked by the fact that a crime had been committed in her house and I was concerned if she was okay and I remember that she had spoken with the police.
CDV:
And then you spoke with Amanda's father, do you remember this?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(answers in English)
INT:
Shortly after Amanda's third call I called both her father and her grandmother.
CDV:
Then her father also called Amanda, are you aware that her father called Amanda?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Don't know for sure but I believe he did.
CDV:
I have finished on this topic, can you tell us how your family is composed of?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
There's me and my husband Chris, Amanda and her sister Deanna.
CDV:
What about Amanda's father?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Amanda's father has a wife and two other daughters.
CDV:
Do they live in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, they live near us.
CDV:
So Amanda sees his father regularly?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, her father lives quite near us.
CDV:
What is your profession?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I am a teacher.
CDV:
Were you aware that Amanda wanted to come to Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Did she ever tell you that she wanted to come to Perugia for a specific reason?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she wanted to go to an Italian city that was not overly touristy, because she wanted to learn about the Italian people, about Italian culture and not live in a place exclusively for tourists.
CDV:
Who paid for the flight, for the Italian language course, and for the house here in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Her father and I did, and Amanda also paid it partly.
CDV:
So Amanda had put money on this project as well?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she had worked hard, she had several jobs to be able to come here.
CDV:
Still on this economic aspect, when she was in Perugia who arranged to pay, did you as a family help Amanda, did you send her money?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, when she left I gave her some money and then I gave her some more for Christmas and her father transferred some money regularly on her account.
CDV:
Can you tell us the approximate sums, if you remember them?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The same that it costs to study at the University of Washington and perhaps I put a little less, in any case we are talking about thousands of dollars.
CDV:
Were you aware of how Amanda took the money out in Perugia, how did she get the money?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she withdrew cash with a cash card but she tried to do so as little as possible because this action also cost money to her.
CDV:
Did Amanda ever tell you that she had problems with money?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, in fact she had none, we were aware [of the status] of her bank account.
CDV:
Listen, do you remember when Amanda arrived in Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Do you mean when she arrived in Italy or when she arrived in Europe because she first came from Germany to Italy?
CDV:
In Italy.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember exactly but she first went to see her grandmother in Germany, then she came here with her sister, then returned here from her grandmother - it could be towards the end of September.
CDV:
So you have relatives in Germany?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Listen, on this aspect there was a witness, a certain Kokomani who reported an uncle of Amanda that he would have seen in Perugia near a bar in the summer of 2007, the question is this: do you have any uncles in your family that were in Perugia during the summer of 2007?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, no one was here then.
CDV:
This same witness said that this uncle had Italian origins, do you have any uncles of Italian origin, or rather does Amanda have any uncles of Italian origin?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, she doesn't have any uncles of Italian origin.
CDV:
When Amanda came to Perugia, did she tell you about her house and her housemates?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she was very happy when she found a house.
CDV:
Do you know if there was any friction between the girls who lived in the same house, if there were any conflicts?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, the only thing she told me was that they got along well.
CDV:
And also with Meredith in particular, did she ever mention that there had been problems with Meredith?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, on the contrary she told me about how they had fun together.
CDV:
Were you in regular contact with your daughter when she was in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, we talked often via e-mail.
CDV:
Then when you received a phone call in the middle of the night, between 4 or 3 depending on the time difference, what did you think that night?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
The first phone call?
CDV:
The first phone call when Amanda called you in the middle of the night, what did you understand, why, did you ask Amanda what was going on?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, Amanda knew that she could call me whenever she wanted to and it was she that was telling me what was happening.
CDV:
You discussed this circumstance of the phone call in prison on November 10, 2007, do you remember?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I imagine so.
CDV:
You recall that Amanda told you that she doesn't remember this call, and you said to Amanda: "how come you don't remember that you called me?”
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't remember this.
CDV:
Then you decided to come to Perugia - why?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Because Amanda was really upset about her friend’s death and she no longer had a place to live in, but she wanted to stay and finish her studies.
CDV:
Did Amanda tell you that in those days she was staying with Raffaele Sollecito at his house?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
And Amanda also spoke to you about the problem with the house, of returning to the rented house and eventually finding another accommodation?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she told me that the house where she was living was the scene of the crime and that she no longer could go there and that, yes, she needed another place to live in.
CDV:
You never met Raffaele Sollecito?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
CDV:
When did you arrive in Perugia?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I believe it was in the morning of the sixth but I was very confused, yes, yes, it's true because I was stuck in Switzerland so I arrived late.
CDV:
Were you supposed to meet Raffaele Sollecito on that occasion?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
On that particular day?
CDV:
Yes, or one of those days?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she wanted me to get to know him.
CDV:
So Amanda had talked to you about Raffaele?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she talked a lot about him.
CDV:
Were you happy about them seeing each other regularly or did you...
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I had talked with him briefly on the phone once and he seemed like a nice guy.
CDV:
When did you talk on the phone, in which occasion?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Amanda gave me the phone for a moment and told me to say hello to Raffaele.
CDV:
Was it during one of these conversations in the days between the second and sixth?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Then it was after the discovery of the corpse?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
Did Amanda receive a fine for noise violation, for disturbance in Seattle?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, the people who lived there had had this fine but Amanda took it.
CDV:
As her mother, were you aware of this episode, this incident?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she had told me about it.
CDV:
Did her father also know about it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I believe so.
CDV:
A circumstance that derives from the surveillance video and audio in the prison, did Amanda confide in you that at some point they had done a medical examination and as a result she was found to be HIV positive?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, she told me about it.
CDV:
And what did she tell you as her mother?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She told me that there would have been a second test and I told her that that test would be fine and I was sure the first, in the first test there had been a mistake.
CDV:
And Amanda was concerned?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She was horrified. She thought she was going to die soon.
CDV:
Are you aware of the diary that she wrote in prison?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
And also about the memorandum that she wrote prior to the diary?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She has always been writing diaries since she was very small.
GCM:
Excuse me but about this memorandum the witness already answered saying she didn't know about it, about the one of the sixth. The diary she knew about yes, about the memorandum in particular there was this specific question.
CDV:
However, there's a reason behind the question about the diary. It was made so that she can confirm to me that Amanda had a habit of keeping a diary.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She has always kept a diary.
CDV:
Do you have Amanda's diaries at your home?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, a box full of them.
CDV:
How many?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know, maybe 15.
CDV:
What does writing mean to Amanda?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
When she writes, Amanda thinks and expresses her emotions, her feelings. Each time she had a problem with me, instead of talking, she wrote, she wrote.
CDV:
Then, also as a dream for her future, are you aware that she wanted to become a writer, did she ever talk about this to you?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, I knew about it, and it was one of the reasons for her coming to Italy, and because there is a very good writing course in Rome in the summer.
CDV:
I wanted to ask you a question about Foxy Knoxy, but I am going to leave it. Instead, I would like to ask you about Lumumba and Rudy Guede, did Amanda ever talk to you about Lumumba?
PC:
She already answered, Judge Massei, so this is a pointless question, unnecessary.
GCM:
She already answered but certainly, it is as a harbinger to something else, so I'm going to allow...
CDV:
What was your reaction and that of Amanda - if you can tell us - when Patrick was released?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, Amanda was happy that he was free and that this thing had been clarified.
CDV:
What this thing?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
This mistake.
CDV:
Amanda thought that it was a mistake to arrest Patrick Lumumba?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
CDV:
When did you learn that Rudy Guede had been arrested?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I believe shortly after it took place.
CDV:
And what did you think or what did Amanda say to you at that time?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I believe that she was relieved that they had taken the person who was responsible, the person who had done this.
CDV:
I have no further questions.

Judge Massei

GCM:
We will suspend the hearing for 5 minutes before continuing with the examination.
GCM:
We shall now continue with the examination of the witness.
DR:
Judge Massei, here's counsel Rocchi substituting for counsel Bongiorno.
CP:
I apologize, Judge Massei, but I have to leave my colleague Sabrina Scaroni in charge.
GCM:
We take note of these substitutions; Knox defence has finished the examination, so the public prosecutor and the other parties can continue with cross examination, and then the parties who have requested examination.

Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini

GM:
Listen, Mrs Mellas, can you tell us about this journey by Amanda to Europe, then to Italy. You talked earlier about Amanda's departure and I would like to know when Amanda left and with whom?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Amanda left from the United States in the middle of August to go to Germany with her sister and her grandmother.
GM:
Then what did she do, what were her movements, because I would like to understand, you talked about these things before, I would like to try to understand.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She spent some time in Germany and she moved around a little bit with her sister and her grandmother to visit family members, then Amanda and her sister came to Perugia for a few days.
GM:
When?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember the exact dates, it could have been at the end of August, at the beginning of September.
GM:
Then what was the other relocation?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Then they both returned to Germany.
GM:
And did she then come back to Italy?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Amanda stayed for a while in Germany and she also went to Berlin for a little while.
GM:
So Amanda came to Perugia for the first time with her sister at the end of august 2007 or beginning of September?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
GM:
Do you know how long they stayed here?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I believe it would have been only two days.
GM:
What was the relationship like between Amanda and her stepfather? How did they get along?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She liked him a lot.
GM:
I would like to return to the interception of November 10. Now, I have to read to you a passage and I don't want any interference from the defence counsels because then I must make you understand, I must post a question on your response, because I want to understand what you meant.
CDV:
Just for reference, I would like to know which transcribed document you are talking about.
GCM:
10-11
GM:
I am reading to you from the bottom of page 18 where it says: "I feel bad for what I did to Patrick because the only reason why I said his name is because he was the first person that came to my mind when I was talking about it".
CDV:
Judge Massei, I contest, this text he just read does not correspond to pages 18 and 19, let's check the transcription of what he just read to you, it does not correspond with the first paragraph of page 18.
GM:
Tribunal of Perugia, page 19, November 10, 2007. We would like to read it again more extensively.
GCM:
Please go ahead, maybe we'll see if all the parties....
GM:
"I feel bad for what I did to Patrick, because I (ellipsis/ dots), the only reason why I said his name is because he was the first person that came into my mind when I was talking about it, and who I could have seen but I know that it is impossible, I only imagined it because I was very stressed" and that was what Amanda said, then you say "ok that's what I thought, I thought no (dots), you know (dots) you are (dots) you know (dots) and mhhhh you know (dots) the lawyers were saying (dots), and they wanted to know if you could have entered and had done this thing they need to know the exact truth, your question is what thing? What did you mean by that? With that statement you kno ...
INT:
I could not translate everything.
GCM:
I'll give you this part, M, the answer M which I think stands for mother, "ok, that's what I thought, I thought, you know, you are" and here there are dots /ellipsis, the prosecutor is asking you what these dots mean in this context.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I have no idea, can I see it? If you want, I can translate it all.
GCM:
Yes, you can also translate this part of the conversation so we can see if Mrs Mellas recalls it.
CDV:
It seems to me that it's also difficult to understand the meaning in Italian, and then to attempt this question, if it is to take the witness in to a certain direction otherwise I don't understand this question, even in Italian, I oppose it because it seems to me to be rather vague the question which is you are/ she is?
GCM:
The opposition is not accepted, also because there is a section in the conversation for which you are seeking a clarification. We'll see if we can achieve it, otherwise we will take note.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know it was two years ago.
GCM:
You don't remember the sense, what they wanted to indicate with those dots that follow the words "you are", that, those two words. Please continue, Mr Mignini.
GM:
But Amanda had told you that the name of Patrick was suggested to her by the police?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She said to me that they continued to put this mobile phone in front of her with the message from Patrick and said to her that "yes, we know that you met him" which in a sense is as if they had suggested it to her.
GM:
But in the statement that Amanda gave she says that he was the first person that came to her mind when she was talking about it, and then on page 43 of the same interception she says "everyone had left the room at that moment, one of the police officers said to me that I'm the only one who can save you, I am the only person who can save you, tell me only a name and I said I don't know, and then they said, I said can you show me a message that I received from Patrick, because I don't recall having responded to him, so they showed me the message and then I said Patrick to them and I thought about Patrick, of seeing Patrick" etc. the question, this is how Amanda explained how she had taken the name of Patrick, it was a spontaneous decision by her, that statement of hers, just like she explained it to you.
CDV:
I must object, but not for devious reasons nor to impede the examination, however it seems to me that the questions posed in this way - interspersing a multitude of remarks and partial references made to the text of the interception of the 10th. I say partial, because even now, as in the previous question, the PM failed to read out this part: "I said Patrick, I think that I completely lost my head" [translator's note: in the original English intercept AK says: "And then I was like: Patrick, I think I just totally spazzed out."] So he extrapolates from within a document that which is useful to him, and above all presents it as if it were an aid to the answer to the question which had already been asked. I believe that this is inappropriate and not correct so I object to the presentation of these possible inaccuracies. They should be subjected to an immediate check by everyone, which happens and therefore we take consent of this question in this matter.
GCM:
We note that the cross examination happens in the rebuttal phase of the parties and therefore possible inaccuracies can be placed under immediate checking by all, which happens and therefore we take as a consequence note, but surely the Prosecutor was going to go to the object of the question. Regarding the question, I beg your pardon, Mrs Mellas, if you can refer when Amanda Knox in this conversation with you spoke of Patrick Lumumba, do you remember in what terms and how it came about from Amanda Knox this person, on the basis of what?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She told me Patrick’s name was said after hours and hours of questioning, of yelling and that phone which was put against her, they we showing it to her and saying "yes, we know that you met him". And they continued to tell her to provide them with some possibilities.
GM:
Take note of the response, I take note of it and that's it. I wanted to go now to the interception of the 17th of November. Here there's first a question about a certain fact. On page 6 Amanda says, "I am very concerned about this thing about the knife because there is a knife of Raffaele's, she had talked about this knife on other times, you had been asked why Amanda was worried about it?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She has never been worried about the knife because she knew she had nothing to do with it.
GM:
She says it in her statement.
GCM:
In the passage where she says “I am very concerned about this knife”.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't remember this, rather she said that this thing about the knife was ridiculous because she had nothing to do with this knife.
GM:
You said earlier that she was not worried, but now you see, you can read from the records that she said that she had been concerned about it. I just wanted to know if you recalled how many other times that had happened, when you talked with her.
GCM:
The prosecutor is noting that in that conversation a worry arises, a worry manifested by Amanda Knox, in the conversation however to which is present the mother. So with respect to this worrying by the daughter, the prosecutor asks, the mother says, “why are you worried”, he is asking you, given that there is some concern, an objective fact that is displayed.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't remember anything about it, because you have heard of this thing in the news and there were so many stories and also lies going around that I thought this was just another one of those.
GCM:
The person who thought this is the mother herself, it's you yourself who said that.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I think we both thought this, both I and Amanda.It was not a thing....
GCM:
What was not a thing?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
That it could be another lie among all the others.
GM:
On page 36 of the intercept of the 17th of November, the mother, i.e. you, say: "So Raffaele always carries a knife with him?" Amanda: "yes" and you say: "yes, ok" Amanda: "I want to say DJ also carries one" who is this DJ? And you reply: "ok and you have put your hands on the knife of Raffaele" who were you alluding to, who is this DJ?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
He is a friend of Amanda in Seattle.
GM:
So he was also carrying a knife always with him?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't know.
GM:
But Amanda says he did and you replied “yes”.
GCM:
The prosecutor is asking, that ‘yes’ of yours, it is an acknowledgment of a fact by Amanda Knox or vice versa it is knowledge that you also had, Mrs. Mellas, you too knew about this, or she said it and therefore you said yes. In other words, what is the meaning of that ‘yes’?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't remember the conversation that well but no, I didn't know it before because when Amanda told me about it I said yes.
GM:
But, obviously Amanda knew that that boy used to carry a knife on him if she said this.
GCM:
That is true yes, he was asking if Mrs Mellas was aware of this.
GM:
I have no further questions.

Civil Party Counsel Serena Perna

SP:
You first reported to have received three calls during the night between the 1st and the 2nd of November in Seattle, not here with us. November 2 in Seattle, if you can repeat the content of the first call, i.e. what was the subject of the first phone call.
GCM:
She has already extensively so to say exposed this phone call, so unless there are specific aspects please let's avoid repetition.
SP:
If Mrs Mellas can confirm to me that all the things that she erlier reported were the subject of the first phone call?
GCM:
You remember when we first brought up the three phone calls, here in Italy they were recorded at 12:47 PM, at 1:24 PM and at 1:58 PM. You were also asked to report the content of these phone calls and you spoke of this content, in particular, it was focused on the length of the first call if you recall this is what you said half an hour ago.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
GCM:
So you confirm all that you reported regarding the first phone call that in Italy appears to have taken place at 12.47?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, however, she also referred to the other two.
SP:
So it was a very detailed phone call?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes, it was a very quick phone call, but only about some of the matters such as the door, the bloodstains, but it was not a long phone call, simply about a few points.
SP:
You said who would have been present there at that moment with Amanda, in addition to Amanda, of course.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
When was the first? Yes, she was with Raffaele.
CP:
Only Raffaele?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
SP:
When you first met Amanda in prison on November 10, do you remember that you talked with her about these phone calls?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't remember this.
SP:
Do you recall that you were surprised that Amanda didn't remember making the phone calls?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No.
SP:
Do you remember that you said to Amanda that “you called me three times”?
CDV:
This is a question, which was already partially made by us, so it has already been made by my colleague and now the same circumstance is repeated, this question seems to have been already asked.
GCM:
Yes, it was already asked.
SP:
I am asking the questions on the basis of the content of the interception of November 10, in which on page 35 there are very accurate steps, and because how surprised Mrs Mellas was at that moment it seems strange to me that even with regard to specific questions she remembers nothing.
GCM:
It was pointed out that these questions were already asked.
SP:
Do you remember if Amanda recounted to you that she was stressed in relation to these calls, if you still remember?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Stressed in relation to phone calls?
SP:
About the fact that she did not remember making the phone calls.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I don't remember this, I don't remember that she would have been.
SP:
Do you remember if during the visit Amanda told you of the moment she had been notified of her arrest?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No I don't recall that.
SP:
Then you do not remember either that Amanda also explained how she felt upset by what had been read to her by the interpreter about the basis of the prosecutor's accusations?
GCM:
Excuse me, please point out that the cautionary arrest is the ruling with which Amanda Knox was deprived of personal liberty on the part of the authorities who were proceeding.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She had been there all night and she hadn't been able to go away, so she didn't identify the moment, the moment when she was arrested.
SP:
But do you remember if Amanda told you about how upset she was about what she had been read to?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She felt very bad; she told me that she felt very bad.
SP:
So you talked about the arrest?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
When I saw her, she was already in prison so it is obvious she had already been arrested.
SP:
I have no further questions.

Civil Party Counsel Sabrina Scaroni

GCM:
Sollecito defense does not have any questions. You may proceed, counsel.
SS:
To return to that conversation in prison on November 10, you told us that you could not remember having talked to Amanda about these three telephone calls that Amanda made that night early in the morning on November 2. I have to assume that you don't remember, but I would like to know if you could clarify your comments. On page 35 of the interception of the 10th of November 2007 Amanda says, "I remember that I called Filomena but I don't remember that I called you, I don't remember" you replied, 'oh really" i.e., you were surprised to find out that Amanda didn't recall "I don't remember having called you" you insist that "well, you called me three times", Amanda repeats again "I don't remember this." Then you start trying to remember and you say "ok, you called me once saying" and Amanda responds "honestly maybe I was shocked." To this response by Amanda you reply saying that "yes, but this happened before anything had really happened in the house" i.e. you made this remark, Amanda says: "I don't remember having called you neither once or twice nor three times”, she says “honestly maybe I was shocked” but you say, you, Mrs Mellas, respond to your daughter "yes, but this happened before!" that is, the first phone call precedes the discovery of the corpse, this seems to be indicated by your remark, I wanted to say, because you made this observation, you had some doubt regarding Amanda's responses, had some doubts as to why Amanda had called you at 3 am in the morning, you were also trying to understand why Amanda felt the need to call in the middle of the night knowing very well that ...
GCM:
Yes, we understand the question, counsel.
SS:
This is what I wanted to know...
GCM:
We have understood what you want to know. Please translate the question to Mrs Mellas. The counsel is asking about the moment the witness reported this conversation.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
She was also trying to understand what thing?
GCM:
Say to her that Amanda Knox said, "maybe I was shocked" and the mother, Mrs Mellas, said to her: "yes, but this happened before" - so if she is able to clarify the part where she said “this happened before”.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't recall this part of the conversation nor the phone calls, because it wasn't what I was worried about at that moment. I was especially worried about how my daughter was feeling, how she was doing.
GCM:
Excuse me, let me just say one thing to you: you recall the phone calls and you already talked about them, but this part you, however, don't know how to explain, but this happened before.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, about this no.
SS:
On another topic, I wanted to know if you - after the murder of the poor Meredith and subjecting of your daughter to pre-trial custody - gave any interviews to newspapers or to television networks? After Amanda was transferred into prison, because she was arrested. These questions have been made to numerous witnesses so I can't see why I couldn't make them to you as well.
CDV:
I oppose because if I am not mistaken the civil party is cross-examining at this time and this was not....
SS:
I am in examination.
CDV:
It seems to me that we are in cross-examination so as we have always done when there are multiple testimonies, I think that this circumstance has not been subject to any analysis by anyone else, so the relevance can't be either, therefore I object.
SS:
I am finishing the examination; I am not conducting a cross-examination.
GCM:
Yes, in fact, the witness was also referred to by the defense, what’s the relevance of the question?
SS:
The relevance of the question is for the purposes of the formation of compensation of the civil party Patrick Lumumba - so will you now allow me to ask the question?
GCM:
Please proceed, the question is allowed.
INT:
She asks whether you mean in Italy or elsewhere.
SS:
I said in general, if she gave any interviews to news programmes or television networks.
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
When I returned to the United States I gave some interviews until I was told that I couldn't do them any more prior to being interrogated so then after that I didn’t give any other interviews.
SS:
I wanted to know if you (pl.) had received any compensation for these interviews and if so, how much?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No:
SS:
I would like to know if you have ever advanced any proposals for compensation in favor of Mr Patrick Diya Lumumba on behalf of your daughter Amanda Knox?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
No, I didn't know that we have it in the United States. We don't have it.
SS:
But maybe it’s better that you explain to her in relation to what I did ask my question, in the sense of knowing how she told us earlier.
GCM:
In any case, she already responded and she said no.
SS:
To see if she understood the question, because she said that this is not anticipated in the United States and I am not aware that it's not expected.
INT:
Yes, but I explained that if a person is unjustly in prison, then the state reimburses in some way.
SS:
Perfect, I didn't realize that you said that. Listen, as Amanda's mother you had the opportunity, did you ever think about or did you apologize to Patrick Diya Lumumba privately or publicly on behalf of your daughter who was in prison?
GCM:
Excuse me, counsel, but we already asked the question regarding on behalf of her daughter.
SS:
No, on behalf of her daughter no, your honor, earlier we asked her if she had happened to go and make the statements to the police, now I was talking about relations with the civil party.
GCM:
Excuse me, counsel, but we are following all the questions, and therefore we have heard the questions posed. This last question is not admitted as it relates to the behavior...
SS:
... not that of the mother...
GCM:
Please, counsel, this question is not going to be allowed...
SS:
But I wanted to clarify, your honor, on behalf of her daughter?
GCM:
The question regarding "on behalf of her daughter" has already been made.
SS:
If the daughter had said to her mother...
GCM:
Excuse me, counsel, the question on behalf of her daughter was already made and she said no, and that they don't have this possibility in the United States.
SS:
No, not the compensation, your honor, the apologies.
GCM:
The apologies. If any apologies were made - not the compensation but a formal apology?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I have never spoken with Patrick.
SS:
I have no further questions.

Judge Massei

GCM:
Direct cross-examination. Please proceed.
CDV:
We have no further questions, your honor.
GCM:
I would only want to ask you this: I seem to remember that the first call at 12:47 PM lasted 88 seconds and the second call at 1:24 PM 162 seconds?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
GCM:
So the second call was twice as long compared to the first?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
Yes.
GCM:
You already told us about the contents of the first and the second phone calls - are you sure that you haven't confused the first phone call with the second one, that is what I wanted to ask you, in view of the length of these calls?
INT:
(Translates the question into English.)
EM:
(Answers in English.)
INT:
I don't think I've confused anything, the second call was especially about this foot and then I was asking her 'how are you' What is happening there?'
GCM:
If there are no further questions, the witness is dismissed and we will proceed to the payment of the interpreting work as regards today's hearing, as well as the one on 13 June, where the court records indicate your presence from 09:00 to 15:30 (3.30 PM) and today from 09:30 to 13:15 (1.15 PM), Considering the type of work that was commissioned, the number of hours that you were involved results in your receiving compensation for 10 hours of interpreting work [translator’s note: five vacazioni i.e. five two-hour periods] but in relation to the specific nature of the task itself, it is decided that regarding the compensation it is doubled.