Amy Frost's Testimony (English)

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This is an English language translation of the testimony. See Amy Frost's Testimony for the original Italian transcript.

Contents

Amy Frost's Testimony

Deposition of the witness – Amy Frost
Key to abbreviations
GCM Giancarlo Massei Judge Presidente
AF Amy Frost Witness being questioned Meredith Kercher's friend
INT Interpreter
GM Giuliano Mignini Prosecutor Pubblico Ministero
CDV Carlo Dalla Vedova Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
CP Carlo Pacelli Lumumba civil lawyer Avvocato
LG Luciano Ghirga Knox defense lawyer Avvocato
FM Francesco Maresca Counsel for Kercher family (civil plaintiffs) Avvocato
DR Daniela Rocchi Defense Counsel for Raffaele Sollecito Avvocato
MB Marco Brusco Raffaele Sollecito's defense lawyer Avvocato
INT Intervention
GCM:
You do not speak Italian?
AF:
A little bit.
GCM:
In any case, you can express yourself in the language you know best. The questions will be placed to you in Italian and the interpreter who was appointed at the beginning of today's hearing will translate them into English for you so that you are able to hear the questions and express yourself in the manner that is easier for you and thus more accurate. It is pointed out to you that you have been called as a witness and in carrying out this service you are a public official, therefore you must tell the truth and everything that is in your knowledge. The witness is reminded that should this service not be correctly performed, there will be judicial consequences to the witness. You have to read the oath aloud. Please go ahead.

The witness, cautioned in accordance with article 497 of the Criminal Procedure Code, reads the oath.

AF:
I solemnly swear.
GCM:
Please state your name, date of birth and place or birth.
AF:
My name is Amy Louise Frost. I was born in Derby on November 13, 1986.
GCM:
Public Prosecutor, you may proceed.

Public Prosecutor

GM:
You knew Meredith Kercher? How long had you known her, when did you meet her?
AF:
I met her on the last day of August.
GM:
Did you see each other regularly?
AF:
Yes.
GM:
Where did you two go, with whom, where did you usually go with Meredith?
AF:
We attended a language course together during the first month. We often went to pubs with Sophie Purton who also attended the language course.
GM:
Listen, you were living in 22 via Bontempi?
AF:
Yes, but during the first month I was living in via del Lupo.
GM:
You were living with Robyn and Rachel in via Bontempi?
AF:
Yes.
GM:
Listen, did you know Amanda? And if so, when did you meet her?
AF:
Yes, I met her for the first time when we went out to eat at a pizzeria.
GM:
Do you remember if you ever went out with Meredith and Amanda together with others?
AF:
On that occasion to the pizzeria and also once to a disco called the Red Zone.
GM:
When was this?
AF:
I think it was around the third weekend of October.
GM:
Listen, did you know Raffaele Sollecito?
AF:
The first time I met him was at the police station, at the Questura.
GM:
Listen, what did you do and with whom on the night between October 31 and November 1?
AF:
We prepared Halloween dinner at my house with Robyn, Rachel, Meredith, Sophie, Natalie, Lina (sic.) and Monic (sic.). Then we went to Merlin and then we - I, Meredith, Sophie and Robyn went to a disco.
GM:
And until what time were you there? Which disco was it?
AF:
I don't remember the name of it.
GM:
Perhaps Domus?
AF:
Yes, the Domus.
GM:
Until what time were you all there?
AF:
I believe until quite late, perhaps until four thirty-five.
GM:
And with whom did you leave the Domus?
AF:
I, Meredith and Robyn left, Sophie stayed.
GM:
Listen, did you (pl.) first accompany someone or did you (pl.) leave immediately?
AF:
Usually after having been out we expected it, but on this occasion I recall that Robyn and Meredith and I went together until the basketball ground...
GM:
So up to the home of Meredith?
AF:
Yes.
GM:
How come you accompanied her that evening?
AF:
I don't know precisely because we didn't do it usually, but perhaps because Sophie was also usually with us. I and Robyn we went to our house and then Meredith and Sophie would go, they went together.
GM:
Listen, when was the last time you saw Meredith?
AF:
When she left my house on November 1st after the dinner.
GM:
What did you do after she arrived at your house? Tell us a little bit about that.
AF:
We watched a film and prepared a pizza and a dessert.
GM:
Do you remember what time you finished eating?
AF:
I don't know because we began to watch the film, then we stopped, then we ate, then we continued ... but I know that she left my house just before nine.
GM:
Before nine. Did she go alone or with someone else?
AF:
Together with Sophie.
GM:
Listen, before we go any further, how was Meredith dressed?
AF:
She had jeans, sneakers, a sweater with a zip in front and a cap.
GM:
So she had a sweater. What did she have in the upper body, did she have a sweatshirt?
AF:
I'm not sure but I think she had a (incomprehensible) blue Puma sports sweatshirt.
GM:
Listen, can you recognize it? I am going to show it to you, then I would like to know another thing. Whether she had a bag.
AF:
I don't remember which bag she had, but she had to have a bag because she took a book with her.
GM:
If I can show it to you ...
GCM:
Are these the same photos shown to the previous witnesses during this same hearing?
AF:
Yes.
GCM:
If you can answer, please tell us.
AF:
Certainly I recognize the top, the bag I recognize because I have seen it other times.
GM:
Do you know if she had that bag or some other bag that evening?
AF:
I don't remember.
GM:
These are ... so we have acknowledged, these are the same.
??:
This is not an interruption. When you say top ...
AF:
Jacket.
??:
If you can clarify more.
AF:
The upper part.
??:
It was not an interruption.
AF:
The upper part, a short jacket.
GCM:
A jacket, so, that was blue, wasn't it?
AF:
Yes, blue.
GM:
Listen, so you and Sophie left, didn't you? Around what time?
AF:
Around nine, I think a little bit before.
GM:
Listen, during that evening what did Meredith talk about? Did she seem calm to you?
AF:
I think she was absolutely calm, we looked at photos that had been taken during the Halloween party and laughed looking at the various photos.
GM:
So, did Meredith say she was tired?
AF:
I don't remember that Meredith would have said that she was tired, but we were all quite tired after the Halloween party.
GM:
You were all tired. That is, the night before you were back at the same time together with her .. ?
AF:
I, Robyn and Meredith, we left the Domus discotheque very late.
GM:
Did Meredith happen to say what she was going to do back home, whether she would go to bed, or if there was someone she expected, if she wanted to watch television? I don't know.
AF:
I don't know. She and Robyn had a history exam and she had loaned a book for that purpose. And I had the impression that perhaps she was going to be studying for this exam.
GM:
Listen, how was the relationship between her (or you, translator's note) and Amanda until that moment?
GCM:
Who are you referring to?
GM:
No, I meant Meredith, excuse me, I didn't explain this very well. Between Meredith and Amanda, how was it? Did Meredith talk to you about it, did she talk about Amanda to you, what did she tell you?
AF:
Meredith told us many things about Amanda, usually things that had to do with the house work, things that irritated her.
GM:
What were the things that irritated her?
AF:
Meredith said that Amanda played the guitar and she always played the same chord, Meredith said that Amanda left the toilet in the bathroom dirty.
GM:
Do you remember any other things?
AF:
Sometimes she said that Amanda always spoke Italian, even though they were both native English speakers ...
GM:
Listen, you don't remember anything else?
AF:
She talked about things that seemed strange to her but that did not necessarily bother her.
GM:
What do you mean?
AF:
I remember that as soon as she arrived, Amanda immediately placed a transparent beauty case that contained condoms and a vibrator into the bathroom. Meredith and I thought it was strange to arrive and do a thing like ... Meredith thought she was possibly a bit extrovert, weird.
GM:
Listen, how did you learn of Meredith's death?
AF:
A lady from the university called Sophie asking if she knew Meredith and she told her that there had been a murder. Then Sophie came to Robyn and my house in via Bontempi, we were all shocked, we wouldn't believe that it had happened. Then Sophie received a phone call from the police in which they said to her that we had to go and wait in front of the university for foreigners. So we waited, and a man with an ordinary car arrived, in civilian clothes and he brought us to the police station. We waited in the waiting room, then we saw Laura, Meredith's housemate and she was crying and seemed very upset. So at that moment we thought that something terrible had happened.
GM:
Did you (pl.) know how Meredith had died?
AF:
No.
GM:
Listen, did you meet Amanda and Sollecito at the police station?
AF:
Yes, I recall that Sophie was called to be interrogated and I and Robyn were sitting together. We saw Raffaele but didn't know who he was. He approached us and said: "I am Amanda's boyfriend", he said "Amanda was at my house last evening, last night, and then went home this morning to Meredith's house, he said she had noticed that the front door was open, and went to the bathroom, saw that there was blood, and also that there was ... she used the word "shit"... interpreter: "which I translate as ´'merda' (shit, crap), in the toilet.
GM:
(Incomprehensible - Outside microphone) he said that to you?
AF:
No. She had decided not to take a shower because she had seen the blood and had to return to his house. Then both of them had gone to Meredith's house. Then she tried to kick in the door of Meredith's room. And then he also said that for both of them it had seemed strange that the poo in the toilet had disappeared.
GM:
Before we go on, one more question. So it was Raffaele who told you this?
AF:
Yes.
GM:
So Raffaele told you that Amanda had seen the blood and therefore had not taken a shower.
AF:
Yes.
GM:
Listen, did he also talk to you about a broken window?
AF:
I don't remember.
GM:
Listen, how did Amanda and Raffaele behave at the police station?
AF:
I thought it was very inappropriate, not appropriate. For most of the time they were sitting opposite one another. Amanda put her feet on his legs, she was making faces at him, they were kissing.
GM:
Listen, how did you perceive it? Did you think this behavior was normal or were you upset by it?
GCM:
Perhaps we continue the description. Was she crying? Compared to the others present was anyone present crying? Was anyone crying?
AF:
I remember that I cried and Robyn and Sophie, I saw almost everyone else crying apart from Amanda and Raffaele.
GCM:
Does that mean that they did not cry or that you did not see them?
AF:
I never saw them crying.
GM:
Listen, you first described something in this conduct of Amanda while she was speaking or looking at Raffaele. Did you say that she was making faces?
AF:
Yes, I remember that one of these was ... Interpreter: that what she did.
GCM:
Was what, excuse me? So she pulled out her tongue. Right, I understand.
GM:
So she stuck out her tongue.
AF:
She pulled out her tongue rolling it.
GM:
Did she also make faces not only with the tongue but, I don't know, with her eyes, for example?
AF:
I remember only that she made faces, especially this one.
GM:
You stated on page 11 of the minutes on 8 February, 2008 "she made faces.." in addition to what you said she "made faces also with her eyes". Do you remember this?
INT:
Excuse me, can you repeat the date for me?
GM:
She said this on 8 February, 2008.
AF:
I believe that she also crossed her eyes, but that thing with the tongue is what I remember best.
GM:
Did Amanda laugh?
AF:
I wouldn't say she laughed, but perhaps sniggered.
GM:
Were they kissing?
AF:
Yes.
GM:
Listen, do you remember what Amanda then said?
AF:
I don't remember that she would have said anything directly to me, but I remember that I heard her talking on the phone and to other people. I remember that someone asked her, "what are you going to do, are you going back to America?" and she said "no, this happens everywhere".
GM:
I meant that if Amanda talked about the discovery of the body.
AF:
I remember having heard only Robyn and Sophie talk about that.
GM:
But did Robyn and Sophie report a thing said by Amanda?
AF:
Yes, they told me that Amanda was talking about Meredith's body while I was heard by the police.
GM:
I see. So Robyn and Sophie told you that Amanda had said that she had seen Meredith's body?
AF:
I remember that they said that Amanda had asked them "what do you think that I have experienced? What do you think I experienced? I found her". I remember that Robyn told me that Natalie had said to Amanda that "I hope that she did not suffer". And she said to Robyn that "what the fuck do you think, she bled to death" using yet another swear word.
GM:
When you have to refer to it, you must say it.
INT:
It's not easy to translate swear words.
GM:
I know, but you have to say it.
AF:
She also said that Meredith's body was found in a wardrobe using the word "closet" for wardrobe.
GM:
Listen, did Natalie tell you that by reporting the words of Amanda or did Amanda tell you that herself?
AF:
Robyn or Sophie.
GM:
Listen, and then if you remember, you told earlier that she made a question such as "what are we doing now? We will find a new house" something of the sort if I understand correctly, that Amanda would have said ...
AF:
No, someone asked "are you going to return home"? And she said "no, these things could happen anywhere." I remember that she was turned toward Laura and Filomena and asked them "now that house, so what are we going to do?" but I don't remember their response.
GM:
Listen, do you recall if you heard or were told that Amanda talked about a flight to America that evening?
AF:
I think that she said that she would not go back home, but I believe that perhaps a flight was booked.
GCM:
Excuse me, can you specify how do you know that? "She didn't want to go home but I believe.. ".
AF:
I don't know, I remember that at the time ... I realized that Robyn and I really wanted to go home.
GCM:
Excuse me, the booked flight to America with reference to Amanda where did that come from...?
AF:
Because I believe that we wanted to know if she was told by the police that she could leave.
GM:
But do you remember if Amanda said this and if she said this on the phone or talking to those present?
AF:
I don't remember that well.
GM:
I have to tell you that in the minutes on February 8, 2008, on page 15 you say "I remember having heard Amanda talking on the phone, I think that she was talking to a member of her family, and I heard her say 'no, I am not going to return home, I cannot take that flight". Minutes on February 8, 2008.
LG:
We don't have that.
GCM:
Can I ask you if you remember this circumstance for which it seems that Amanda Knox was talking on the phone and said "no, I cannot.. ".
AF:
If this is what I said then it should be true.
GCM:
But you don't remember it now.
AF:
It happened a long time ago.
GCM:
Excuse me, you do not remember ...
INT :
That she doesn't remember, on the transcript there is ...
GCM:
Excuse me...

Interventions outside microphone.

GCM:
Beyond the page, the fact that if the pages do not match perhaps in the translation the numbering is different, but the circumstance is not?
GM:
It is the last sentence of the statement that was finished at 13.30 in Bergamo.
CDV :
At the bottom.
GM:
It is at the bottom.
GCM:
We have it, so we have clarified this aspect. The interpreter is a bit more rested. Alright.
GM:
Do you remember this aspect now?
AF:
I remember having said it so if I said it then it must be true.
GCM:
Today you don't remember it but you are saying that "if I remembered it at the time, I was talking about things that really happened".
AF:
Yes.
GM:
I have no further questions.
GCM:
Civil plaintiffs you may proceed if you have any questions.

Civil Plaintiff Advocate Pacelli

CP:
Lawyer Pacelli, defense of the civil plaintiff Lumumba. Listen, did Amanda tell you that she also had a boyfriend in America?
AF:
Yes. When the evening came on that day when I met her she told me that she had a boyfriend but that for the duration of her stay in Italy she would have an open relationship.
CP:
What does that mean, what does it mean to have an open relationship? If you able to be more specific.
AF:
I think that it means that you can have relationships with other people. But I know that she was talking with him and continued to be in contact with him.
CP:
This American boyfriend was going to go to China?
AF:
Yes.
CP:
Can you tell us the details of this aspect, of these conversations reported by Amanda?
GCM:
Excuse me, about what, about the trip to China?
CP:
About the conversation that Amanda had with her boyfriend with regard to this aspect of the journey of her American boyfriend to China. It is useful in describing the personality of Amanda, your honor. If you remember, and also in the statement of the February 8th, which the defence counsels have, of course, read.
AF:
I remember that Meredith told me that they had gone together to an Internet cafe and that Amanda had said that she had written down an erotic dream she had seen and that she had sent it to her boyfriend.
CP:
You don't remember anything else on this point?
INT:
Excuse me, on this point?
CP:
Are you able to add any other details on this aspect?
AF:
No.
CP:
Perhaps that the American boyfriend had met a Chinese girl?
AF:
Yes, excuse me. He had met a Chinese girl, and Amanda had asked him "ah, what is that girl like" and I think she was happy about this thing. I remember thinking "strange, if my boyfriend had met another girl I would not be happy".
CP:
Thank you. Listen, going back to the evening of November 2, when you were at the police station. First of all, can you tell us who you saw at the waiting room in the police station on the evening of November 2?
AF:
Me, Robyn, Sophie, Natalie, Samantha, Jade, Helen, Amanda, Raffaele, Laura, Filomena, Filomena's boyfriend, and all the boys who lived in the downstairs apartment. At some point their parents also arrived.
CP:
Listen miss Frost, while you were in the offices of the police station, did you hear someone among those present, in particular miss Amanda, saying that the poor Meredith had had sex or in any case sexual intercourse before being killed?
AF:
No.
CP:
Still on that evening, did you hear someone among those present, and in particular miss Amanda, say that Meredith, the poor Meredith had shouted or screamed before dying?
AF:
No.
CP:
Thank you, thank you.
INT:
- Your honor, we are in cross-examination, so I think precedence to the Knox defense that it has a direct witness.
GCM:
Yes, cross-examination on prosecutor's questions so that is alright. Please go ahead, counsel.

Defense Counsel Ghirga

LG:
Lawyer Ghirga, Amanda Knox defense. Very few questions. Did you see this vibrator in the beauty case in the bathroom?
AF:
I'm sorry I don't remember.
LG:
You don't remember whether you saw it or you don't remember.. ? The question is whether you saw it not.
AF:
I cannot remember.
GCM:
You spoke about it earlier. But you talked about it because other people had told you about this.. ?
AF:
Meredith told me about it.
GCM:
But you did not see it, you don't remember having seen it.
AF:
No, I don't remember having seen it.
GCM:
Go ahead, counsel.
LG:
Did Meredith have an atm card?
AF:
Yes.
LG:
Did she keep cash, coins, paper money in her pocket?
AF:
I don't know, I suppose so.
LG:
You gave a figure during your depositions. Do you remember how much money she had?
AF:
How much money Meredith had?
LG:
Usually.
AF:
I don't think she usually withdraw more than 50 euros, unless she had to pay the rent.
LG:
It is precisely here, unless she would have to pay the rent. You saw Amanda on the evening of the 1st. Excuse me, the first time that you saw Meredith.
AF:
Yes.
LG:
You saw her on the 31st, you spent Halloween night together.
AF:
Yes.
LG:
Did you attend a lesson together with Amanda, with the defendant, on the 30th? If you saw here on the afternoon of the 30th, on the 30th day.
AF:
I don't remember the date, but I usually saw her every day.
LG:
Alright. In these last few days of Meredith's life, did she ever talk to you about having withdrawn money from her checking account?
AF:
No, but I know that we were paying the rent on the first day of the month.
LG:
No, no, my question is if you remember if in those days she told you of withdrawals, if she withdrew any money on that day.
GCM:
Did Meredith tell you if she had withdrawn money during those days?
AF:
I don't remember that she would have told me that, no.
LG:
Do you remember if Amanda had an ear ring or earrings or piercings on her ears?
AF:
Yes, I remember that Meredith told me that it was strange because Laura had many piercings on the ears. One day Amanda made exactly the same thing. And Meredith thought that it was strange because Amanda (incomprehensible) to Laura.
GCM:
Why is that?
AF:
She idealized her.
GCM:
Amanda idealized Laura. Who is Laura?
AF:
One of the roommates.
GCM:
Laura?
AF:
The roommate.
GCM:
What's her surname?
AF:
No.
GCM:
The roommate in any case. Please proceed.
LG:
Listen, when you were also heard on the 8th of February in Bergamo, at Bergamo police station, do you remember it?
AF:
Yes, I remember.
LG:
Were you in Bergamo to study?
AF:
Yes.
LG:
In that deposition that was summarized by answering the questions of the prosecutor, you never told ...
INT:
(Outside microphone).
LG:
Now ... that deposition ...
GCM:
Counsel, please go to the question. She never said that?
LG:
Yes. She never said that phrase to the police, to the prosecutor, whoever it was, "Meredith said that Amanda was nice and friendly"? Those two words, if you remember that Meredith said them of Amanda? If they were ever reported.
AF:
No, not really, I don't remember.
LG:
Then, just for a historical fact, your honor, on page 12 of that statement of February 8, 2008, answering questions of a police officer and after the translation it says that "Amanda arrived ... and Meredith said that 'she is nice and friendly" also referring to the beginning, but she uses these two ...
GCM:
Perhaps we could read it, counsel?
LG:
"When Amanda came to Perugia for the first time I was in England. When I returned from England I learned that the American girl had arrived in Meredith's house and then I asked Meredith how ... and I also asked Sophie.. " I imagine "...how was this girl and Meredith said 'she is nice and friendly,'" end of quotation. Do you remember these two words?
INT:
If you want them translated well I need to read it.
GCM:
Counsel has read from the previously made statements by the witness from which it would appear that Meredith was describing Amanda with these adjectives, "nice and friendly".
AF:
Perhaps I said that, I said that Meredith told us these things in the early days, but I think that later she would not have said anything of the kind.
LG:
Still for historical confirmation, you in the deposition, interrogation of the February 8th never defined Amanda as mad?
AF:
Yes, I believe I thought that her behavior at the police station was like that of a person who was going crazy.
LG:
Alright.
GCM:
There are no further questions. Co-counsel has some questions? Please go ahead.

Defense Counsel Dalla Vedova

CDV:
I would like to return to the evening at the police station.
GCM:
Police station in Perugia, counsel, given that we were talking about Bergamo.
CDV:
In Perugia on the evening of the 2nd, immediately after the discovery. I would like to know at what time did you arrive at the police station?
AF:
At that time I was upset, so I'm not sure, but I think it was around six.
CDV:
Do you remember until what time you remained at the police station?
AF:
It seemed to be a very long time, perhaps to around one in the morning.
CDV:
Do you remember roughly when you said that everyone was crying? Was it at the beginning or was it late in the evening?
AF:
It was during the whole evening ...
CDV:
So they were all upset.
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
Do you remember what the Italians were talking amongst themselves about this question?
AF:
About that situation no, but I remember that in the waiting room we were divided, the English on the one side and the Italians on the other. I don't remember having heard the Italians talking about people who were crying.
CDV:
Excuse me, miss Frost, but in your earlier statements that I had just a while ago before me, you said that you were all in the same room and you really did mention all the names of the British friends, the housemates from the floor above, the housemates, the boys from the downstairs apartment, and you also said that at some point the family members of the boys from the downstairs apartment arrived. But now you are saying that you were in two different rooms.
INT:
No, she said that they were separated.
GCM:
Lets hear what she says.
AF:
We were in the same room, but the Italians were sitting on the chairs on the one side and the British on the other side of the room.
CDV:
In addition to Amanda, who else spoke English at that time?
AF:
The British girls when Raffaele addressed us and also Raffaele spoke English.
CDV:
Does Raffaele speak English well?
AF:
I remember that I had to help him because he wanted to say that he had kicked the door but could not recall how to say the word "calcio" (kick) in English.
GCM:
Whom was he talking to using this expression? Who was he talking to?
AF:
He was telling it to me and Robyn.
CDV:
Do you remember who told you of the discovery of the body and also of the mode of death in Italian and in English?
AF:
Robyn and Sophie told me what Amanda had told them in English.
CDV:
Listen, do you know whether Amanda Knox has a red coat?
AF:
I don't know.
CDV:
Did you used to go out with Meredith and Amanda at the beginning, as soon as you got to know each other?
AF:
Not with Amanda, I remember the pizzeria and the Red Zone disco, those are the only times that I remember.
CDV:
Did Meredith instead use to see Giacomo Silenzi frequently?
AF:
Giacomo was also at the Red Zone, that was the first occasion I met him.
CDV:
In any case you were aware that there was an intimate relationship between Silenzi and Meredith?
AF:
I believe that that evening at the Red Zone was the first evening they kissed.
CDV:
Do you remember the date of that evening at the Red Zone?
AF:
I think it was the third weekend in October, a Saturday.
CDV:
Listen, on the question of piercing that you told us about, do you remember how many piercings Amanda had on her ears?
AF:
No, but I know that there were several.
CDV:
More than five?
AF:
I believe so because I think they went quite high.
CDV:
Did you notice if there was any blood, if they were bleeding?
AF:
No.
CDV:
Listen, returning to the evening of the 31st in the disco, I would like to know if you remember whether Meredith was ever alone, if you (pl.) left and she was left alone?
AF:
I don't believe so because I remember that I danced with her while Robyn and Sophie were talking with other people.
CDV:
So you can say that you were next to Meredith all evening?
AF:
Apart from when I went to the bathroom, otherwise part of the evening.
CDV:
Do you remember if any black guys were talking with Meredith?
AF:
No.
CDV:
Do you remember if there were any black guys in the disco?
AF:
I don't know, there were lots of people.
CDV:
So do you remember if there were any black guys? Do you remember or do you exclude it?
AF:
Yes, I remember that there were people of all types, so I suppose so.
CDV:
Excuse me if I insist, but did you see any black guys or not? It is useless to say "I suppose so". Answer yes or no. Not "I suppose". It is a way of responding that does not satisfy me, excuse me, your honor. I asked a question, supposing ...
GCM:
Alright.
AF:
I would say yes.
CDV:
Listen, about the fact of the flight, you told us that you had heard, you had understood that there was a flight to America.
AF:
Yes, I believe so.
CDV:
But do you know that Amanda talked with her mother during those days?
AF:
I don't know whether it was her mother, but I knew she was on the phone I believe with her family.
CDV:
You know that her mother arrived in Italy on November 6 from Seattle?
AF:
No.
CDV:
Listen, the last question about the relationship of Silenzi and Meredith. Can you tell us if the relationship was regular or were there interruptions?
AF:
It started when we went to the Red Zone, so it was quite early.
GCM:
Recent.
AF:
The relationship was recent yes, new. But I know that when I went out with Meredith all the time during the two months I never saw her kiss anyone else.
CDV:
So she didn't have relationships with any others, intimate relationships, not only kisses?
AF:
No.
CDV:
Listen, did you notice if Meredith and Silenzi were using cannabis?
AF:
I know that Meredith was very much concerned, I believe she sent me a text message and came to my house to ask me for advise. Because the boys downstairs had asked her to water their cannabis plants and she was afraid to do that.
CDV:
But the question was ... now let's discuss this aspect first. I asked if they used it.
AF:
I think that perhaps she smoked once. Se told me that Laura and Filomena smoked at home, but she did not say that she did often. I believe she did it once.
CDV:
Were you present?
AF:
No.
CDV:
How do do you know it then, were you together with other people or why did Meredith tell you that?
AF:
I believe she told me.
CDV:
So, returning instead to the cannabis plants that you told about, did you ever see them?
AF:
No.
CDV:
And when Meredith told you that she had to water them, what was your advice?
AF:
I said to her that I would also be very concerned so I didn't know what to say.
CDV:
But you do know then that she actually watered these plants?
AF:
I believe so because she told me that she had the key.
CDV:
Do you remember roughly how many days this watering ... ?
AF:
Only when they were not at home, but I don't remember for how long, perhaps for the duration of all the festivities of the Saints.
CDV:
I see. Do you remember the color of the beauty case that Meredith told you about?
AF:
She said that it was transparent.
CDV:
As in transparent plastic through which one can see what is inside?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
You never saw this beauty case?
AF:
No, I don't remember.
CDV:
I see. For the time being I'm finished, thank you.
GCM:
Sollecito defense?

Defense Counsel Rocchi

DR:
Lawyer Daniela Rocchi. Very few questions. You reported that you saw all of your friends crying at the police station on the evening of the 2nd except for Raffaele and Amanda.
AF:
Yes.
DR:
Did it appear to you that Samantha Rosenhurst was crying?
AF:
I don't remember. I remember only that most people cried. But I didn't see Amanda and Raffaele crying.
DR:
Listen, as regards the evening, on the afternoon of the 1st of November at your house, you were unable to report what time you finished eating. Do you know then what time you started to eat?
AF:
I know that Meredith arrived around 4.30 pm and Sophie was already there. We prepared the pizza, the dough, the dough for the pizza, and so I think around 5.30 pm, 6 pm.
DR:
As regards the evening of 31st, I would like to ask you, you ruled out talking directly with any black boys. Are you able to exclude it also for Meredith?
AF:
I didn't see her talking with any black men.
DR:
You gave a statement (summary informations) on the 2nd, at the police station. Do you remember at what time?
AF:
I think it was around 5.30 pm, 6 pm.
DR:
From the minutes of the meeting of the 2nd of November it appears that you were heard at 18.20 (6.20 pm) before inspectors Burchielli and Pascari. I would like to ask you if you were heard together with your friend Sophie Purton.
AF:
No, they heard Sophie first.
DR:
I would like to make it known, your honor, that in the minutes of both Sophie Purton and Amy Frost the time 18.20 (6.20 pm) is indicated and at least in the first part they formally coincide. So if they can then be ...
GCM:
If you then ask for the acquisition.
DR:
One last question. I would like to know if you remember the time of the lessons that you attended on October 30 in the afternoon.
AF:
I don't remember.
DR:
You do not remember whether you saw Meredith that afternoon?
AF:
I don't remember, but usually I saw her every day.
DR:
I have no further questions.

Defense Counsel Brusco

MB:
Brusco for Sollecito defense. Very few questions. With regard to seeing Meredith, you said that you met each other almost every day if I have understood correctly.
AF:
Yes.
MB:
Then it would have been usual for you two to confide in each other, i.e. perhaps you said to each other "I met a person, a new friend", talked about your experiences?
AF:
Yes, we talked about everything. I believe that when you are in a foreign country and there is no family around, no one knows you so you make friends fast. So we talked about everything.
MB:
You had never talked about Rudy, Meredith had never told you that "I met a guy called Rudy"?
AF:
No.
MB:
I see. However, with regard to the classes at the university, did you attend the same classes?
AF:
In the first month we attended the same language school, but in the second month I attended French lessons and was studying French and she didn't, she was studying history.
MB:
I see. Do you remember if Meredith ever complained about shortages of money?
AF:
I know that at the time of her death she was planning to go to ask for a job at the Merlin the following week.
MB:
No, the question was different, whether she had suffered from thefts of money.
AF:
There had been no stealing. She said that she wanted a job to get more money.
MB:
I see. Returning to the evening of November 2, when you were at the Perugia police station, do you remember if Raffaele when he had told of having tried to break the closed door where Meredith ...
AF:
Yes, certainly.
MB:
Did you notice if Amanda, Raffaele or someone else had wounds in their hands or in some other part of their body?
AF:
No, I didn't notice.
MB:
I have finished.
GCM:
There are no further questions. The civil plaintiff.

Civil Party Advocate Maresca

FM:
Maresca for the Kercher family.
GCM:
Isn't she a common witness in any case?
FM:
Yes. If you remember, regarding an episode in which Knox was asked about a herpes that she had at that moment on the lip. If yes, with whom did she discuss it?
AF:
Yes, Meredith told me that the guys from the downstairs apartment had had a party and a guy had said to Amanda "I like that herpes" and Amanda said, "no, it's not herpes, it's a pimple" and he said "no, it's herpes, it means that you like having sex". I remember that then I saw Amanda kissing this guy in the Red Zone.
FM:
Who was that boy?
GCM:
Excuse me, who was this boy?
AF:
I believe that he was a friend of the guys who lived downstairs.
FM:
Do you remember his name?
AF:
I believe that his surname was De Luna.
FM:
Daniel De Luna?
AF:
Yes.
FM:
With whom did you (or she, translator's note) live in Perugia, miss Frost?
INT:
She?
FM:
Yes.
AF:
In via del Lupo or in via Bontempi?
FM:
No, in via Bontempi.
AF:
Robyn (Butterworth) and Rachel (Samsan).
FM:
I did not understand.
AF:
Robyn and Rachel.
FM:
Did you meet Meredith Kercher for the first time in Perugia?
AF:
Yes, I met her here for the first time, but we had sent e-mails before arrival because we knew that we would be following the same language course.
FM:
So you never met in England?
AF:
No, no.
FM:
Thank you.
GCM:
The defense of Amanda Knox to which this is a common witness, so for ...

Defense Counsel Ghirga

LG:
If I understood correctly, Meredith told you about the herpes and whatever else it was that she told you, you learned it from Meredith?
AF:
Yes.
LG:
With regard to November 1, which is, unfortunately, the day Meredith died, how long before or shortly before or long before that day Meredith had told you about this fact? If you are able to place this story temporally. That's the question.
AF:
I think she told me that story before we went to the Red Zone where I then saw Amanda kissing that guy. And I already knew that story.
GCM:
Still Knox defense which has the witness in common. Go ahead, counsel.

Defense Counsel Dalla Vedova

CDV:
Listen, I would like to know, on the evening of 31st when you were in the disco, did you meet a person called Sciachi (Shaky, translator's note)?
INT:
Excuse me?
CDV:
A certain mister, a guy called Sciachi, also known as Isciam?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
On what occasion, can you tell us?
AF:
It was at the Domus and we knew him from having been often at the Domus and Merlin.
CDV:
Can you be more precise, when did you get to know him?
AF:
We met him fairly early, at the beginning of the language course he was always at the Merlin.
CDV:
But was he a friend of Meredith or was he your friend?
AF:
He was a friend of us all, but not really a friend, he was just someone we knew.
CDV:
But in the evening at the disco, was he with you (pl.), and was he then dancing with you (pl.)?
AF:
Yes, because he dances very well.
CDV:
But you said earlier that you were only dancing with Meredith and now you are telling me that you were dancing with this Sciachi.
AF:
We danced in a group, I remember that at some point also Robyn and Sophie were dancing and I also remember that there were moments when I was dancing only with Meredith.
CDV:
In addition to Sciachi Isciam, how many other young people were there in this group?
AF:
I belive that Jade, Helen and Samantha were also dancing.
CDV:
And the boys?
AF:
I don't remember, perhaps Pisco Alessio and a deejay who worked in Pisco's pub, in Pisco's bar.
CDV:
A certain deejay Naf?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
Was there also a certain Spiros, who was called the Internet Man?
AF:
No.
CDV:
Did you see Deejay Naf and Pisco there after the evening of the 31st?
INT:
Excuse me, did you say after the night of the 31st?
CDV:
After the 31st, yes.
AF:
They came toward us at the university while we were waiting for the police.
CDV:
Can you be clearer when you say "they came toward us"? Did you (pl.) have an appointment, did they come to talk to you (pl.)? Did you (pl.) call him?
AF:
I think Sophie had called Pisco.
CDV:
And you (pl.) knew that you (pl.) should go to the police station?
AF:
It happened while we were waiting.
CDV:
Because Sophie called Pisco?
AF:
He was a good friend and I think that perhaps she wanted to know if he knew anything about the murder.
CDV:
But was this Pisco a boyfriend of one of the girls?
AF:
No, no he wasn't, but he was a good friend of Sophie's.
CDV:
And Deejay Naf?
AF:
No.
CDV:
He wasn't anyone's boyfriend?
AF:
Not that I knew of.
CDV:
And when you met before going to the police station, what did you (pl.) say about Meredith's death on that occasion, do you remember anything in particular?
AF:
I remember that there was so much incorrect information that we thought that it was not Meredith. I remember that they said that this girl was twenty years old and was from Wales, and I believe that there were journalists near the basketball court who gave this wrong information to Pisco.
CDV:
I see. Did you have any more contact with this deejay Naf and Pisco, for example, after being at the police station?
AF:
No, but Pisco came to the police station.
CDV:
Was Pisco with you up until one at night?
AF:
I don't remember because we went to have our fingerprints taken, and then there was the interrogation.
CDV:
Listen, is it true that you then on the 3rd left Italy?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
Why was that?
AF:
Because I was afraid and I wanted to return home.
CDV:
Because you obviously had no family members here in Perugia.
AF:
No.
CDV:
Then for you as a foreigner such a tragic situation was ...
GCM:
Yes, I agree, counsel. If there are any further questions, we have already heard of this aspect. Go ahead.
CDV:
So you then returned to Italy at some point.
AF:
Yes, to get all my things from my apartment.
CDV:
And then you went to Bergamo.
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
How come?
AF:
To complete my term of Italian studies.
CDV:
Still together with Butterworth.
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
On that occasion you were heard again by the Perugian authorities.
AF:
Yes, in Bergamo.
CDV:
Do you remember if you were questioned together with miss Butterworth?
AF:
No, we were separated.
CDV:
And there was also a translator?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
Was the translator an official of the Ministry of the Interior, do you remember her?
AF:
I saw her again.
CDV:
Here in Perugia?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
When?
AF:
Yesterday.
CDV:
I would just like to clarify something. Because here is a report of the summary informations of February 8, 2008 with agent Napoleon Zucarini, a representative of Public Prosecutor's Office in Perugia. It appears that the English language interpreter Aida Colantone, an official of the Ministry of the Interior, was present and she was used as office writer, and it is recorded in the minutes. My question is this, if you remember: this translator ...
GCM:
What is the question? We don't know the question. What do you want to know, counsel?
CDV:
Was she a self-employed interpreter, independent or was she an official.. ?

Interventions outside microphone.

GCM:
I'm sorry, there is opposition. The question is not permitted any more because the witness has already responded. If there are any other questions, counsel, please go ahead.
CDV:
When did you then definitively leave Italy, after Bergamo?
AF:
At the end of May I believe.
CDV:
Do you know that Butterworth gave a statement in England, a written statement. Are you aware of this?
AF:
Yes.
CDV:
Did you also make a document of this type?
INT:
What are you referring to.. ?
CDV:
Did you give any written statements?
AF:
A policeman came to my home, but I did not make any statements.
CDV:
And then what?
GCM:
Was he Italian or English?
AF:
A policeman from my city (Derby).
CDV:
Did this policeman phone you or did he come on his own?
AF:
I phoned him.
CDV:
Why?
AF:
Because I thought that there were things that I needed to say, because I had remembered that Meredith had had the keys to the downstairs apartment and I thought that maybe that was important.
CDV:
So you then reported this fact to this British policeman and a statement was written, do you remember?
AF:
No, I think that he then called Interpol.
CDV:
How do you know that?
AF:
Because he also thought that that information could be important.
CDV:
But did he then tell you that he called Interpol?
AF:
I believe that before calling I called Interpol and their sent the policeman from my town. I told him about that thing and he then came back for the information.
CDV:
But did you say earlier that you had called the policeman or Interpol?
GCM:
Ok, I understand, excuse me. Gradually we have now clarified this aspect, you called Interpol and Interpol sent this local police officer to your house but no written statements were made by you.
AF:
He took notes but I didn't sign anything.
GCM:
You didn't sign anything, very well.
CDV:
After this episode were there any other contacts with the British authorities or when you were in Britain or with the Italian authorities when you were in Britain?
AF:
I believe I called Interpol last month to find out if I would be questioned and if they knew when but they had no information about that.
GCM:
Go ahead, counsel.
CDV:
Just a short question. Did you know if Meredith had any credit cards?
AF:
I don't know.
CDV:
You never saw them.
AF:
No.
CDV:
But you knew that she withdrew money from automatic teller machines.
AF:
Yes, she had an atm card.
CDV:
Okay, thank you.
GCM:
There are no further questions. Go ahead, counsel. Excuse me, but she is not a common witness ...
CDV:
No, I just wanted to ask about the acquisition of the two statements I have referred to.
GCM:
I would like to ask you, who was Meredith's best friend, the one she confided in the most? Who was that friend .. ?
AF:
It would have been me.
GCM:
There are no further questions. Meanwhile there is this request for acquisition.

There are no further questions; the witness is dismissed.

CDV:
I would like to ask the acquisition of the statements of Amy Frost and Sophie Purton from November 2, 2007 because they have the exact same time at the beginning with these same inspectors and because the form and the substance of the content are identical.
GCM:
So as a historical fact concerning the date of ... or even for the purposes of the usability of the content.
CDV:
No, only for the purpose of determining the date and ...
GCM:
As for documenting ... so ex article 234, as a document of when the statements were made and if they were present. In this context and with this limitation, the statements will be acquired and made available. The hearing is suspended until 15.00.